T O P

The Origin is such a good entryway into Gundam

The Origin is such a good entryway into Gundam

MS-06_Borjarnon

*The Origin* (the manga) is a manga retelling of the original series that includes a flashback portion, which is what was made into the animation. *Hathaway's Flash* is the name of the novel(s), *Hathaway* is the animation based on it. Edit - Also, *MSG* has some *extremely* good animation, but mostly in the back half, during the hallucination/Newtype vision/psychedelic sequences.


retrometroid

It's funny they went with just "Hathaway" for the movie in the west when you can clearly hear the narrator refer to it as "Senkou no Hathaway" in every trailer


Red-Zaku-

But non-Japanese speakers don’t know what Senkou is. Plus it’s normal, because localization processes usually lead to most media having different names in different places. Even between fellow English speaking countries with natively English media, name changes are expected internationally in most cases.


retrometroid

Senkou means "flash". It could've just been called "Hathaway's Flash".


Red-Zaku-

Probably figured the wider English speaking audiences wouldn’t know what his flash is, it’s a title which, in our language, opens itself for more questions and confusion. Easier to pick a more monolithic name to stand out for American audiences, just like how American media oftentimes gets new names in Japan. Now, if the word flash is thematically important I can see it being an issue to change the name. But I don’t think his flash is relevant, unless we don’t yet know what his flash is.


MS-06_Borjarnon

One of the first associations most English speakers would have is with 'flashers', like, when people go around exposing themselves in public, which I can see why they'd not want to invoke.


retrometroid

Is it? I usually think camera flash.


MS-06_Borjarnon

Fair point, still, it's *one* of them, I'd bet.


[deleted]

I got into the og Gundam as well after watching Origin. The first Gundam story was actually pretty good. Watching Zeta right now and I really enjoy it too!


death_and_syntaxes

I don't think it is though. It gives away some very important information about the original series that while not ruining the series, would ruin some of the fun. Edit: Rather the anime. The manga is a great ones to start as it's a retelling of the original with the honor stuff seem in the anime of the origin.


wantsaarntsreekill

Unpopular opinion, but Unicorn and The Origin are way too overpraised simply since the story of 79, Zeta, ZZ, CCA is just so brilliant. They definitely don't deserve higher ratings than 79, Zeta, ZZ, CCA on MAL. They are enjoyable but I feel it is largely due to production values rather than what they contributed to the franchise. They are simply pulling way too much from the existing UC timeline and doesn't try to enough its own thing. Hathaway I am glad Tomino tried not to just make it Londo Bell vs Neo Zeon again. Tomino himself has been against others just soulessly copying his work. I hear anitubers saying Unicorn and Origin are excellent entry series but I believe it is setting them up for disappointment. Gundam series are meant to be 50 episodes long so you can fully flesh out the series. A 13 or 22 series just extended from an OVA does not have the length for a proper series. You might get that initial dopamine rush by finishing a high quality OVA series, but will you have the guts to go through 150 episodes of 80s anime. Although we might like to say that, in reality for most people it is going to be no. Getting enough portion of the anime community to just suddenly get through 79, Zeta, ZZ, CCA is simply not going to work because anime production values have changed too dramatically. We already now have SEED getting further development, and I am sick of seeing the Western fandom senselessly bashing it, and telling newcomers to not watch it and start with Unicorn and Origin. Tomino wants to beat Demon Slayer, and if the fanbase keeps telling newcomers to avoid a series that Sunrise is putting so much resources into, we won't help him achieve his dream. Yesterday's Manga video already have Westerners trashing SEED for no good reason. If you want to go through a proper Gundam series, it should be a 50 episode anime. That shows you have time and patience to digest a Gundam timeline.


yden945

I agree tbh. If someone wants to dip their feet in then they should just watch a standalone outside of the UC. Recommending Origin or Unicorn as an entry point is stupid since it will destroy the payoff you could have gotten watching it for the first time in production order. Plus what everyone else said about Char's characterization in Origin kind of being way too literal if you watch it first. If someone finds their own way in and decides to watch Unicorn/Origin first and end up enjoying it then that's completely fine, I don't believe in gatekeeping. But recommending it that way to people feels stupid.


wantsaarntsreekill

Origin and Unicorn were definitely like a payoff. I sort of see them as a part of the puzzle. I don't see too much gatekeeping in the universal century. A lot of the gatekeeping I think in the anime community is Only watch the payoff and don't watch the rest. But hope the community doesn't gatekeep people from SEED. That is basically just telling Bandai they want Gundam to fail. Bandai is putting a lot of resources into Mobile Suit Gundam SEED PROJECT ignited for a reason. I have already seen gatekeeping gone out so out of control in Star Wars and Marvel.


yden945

I love SEED so no argument there from me haha. Kind of unrelated but my only issue with SEED now is it's hard to get the original dub legally, and I can't watch it any other way since that's how I saw it on TV. The new FUNimation dub I just can't get into.


Pathogen188

>Recommending Origin or Unicorn as an entry point is stupid since it willdestroy the payoff you could have gotten watching it for the first timein production order. Not even just payoff, but at least in regards to Unicorn, several parts of the story feel like they're entirely predicated on the viewer having watched at least MSG if not the main UC entries. To the point that without that background knowledge, the work's quality dramatically drops. I mean the series literally ends with >! Lalah, a character never once mentioned in UC prior to her appearance in episode 7, saving the day and helping talk down FF. Not to mention MSG Char's brief appearance as well as Amuro's cameo.!< I can't imagine how confusing episode 7's ending would be without having watched MSG prior. Not to mention Marida's plot, one of the best aspects of UC, pretty much requires you to have watched ZZ before it. Unicorn being an entry point for newcomers feels so bizarre when so much of it is based on what came before.


wantsaarntsreekill

Unicorn literally shows a clip of the ending of CCA and talks countless times of that So and So's rebellion. It isn't too hard to connect the pieces on what happens. I cannot imagine a faster way to ruin suspense other than someone telling you right at the beginning. Even CCA, they tried not to tell you anything of what happens in Zeta and ZZ because they are aware most people in japan only saw the first 3 movies. Doing so will probably spoil 2 entire series. Also Origin completely spoils Char and Sayla's backstory in 13 episodes, when there is supposed to be a build up, and unraveling of what happens. In general it spoils too much Thesis being, Origin and Unicorn spoils MSG 2 much so never use those at the beginning. AniTube emphasizes a dophamine rush right at the beginning rather than a through understanding. The Fate franchise has been plagued with AniTube ruining a thorough enjoyment 4 years, by recommending a prequel that drops all the biggest spoilers in like the first episode. If people don't have the patience to watch the 2006 fate anime at 24 episodes, how will the general anime audience be able to watch 1980s animation at 150 episodes and actually finish.


the_name0

I have to disagree. I'm a purest when it comes to Gundam. I'd prefer if everyone saw the UC trilogy (MSG, Zeta, then ZZ). That would be topped off with CCA, of course. To elaborate why I think Origin is bad for beginners, it totally throws the nuance of Char out the window. It turns his quest for revenge into cartoony evil. And ultimately, I think that story doesn't need to be told. We understand Char's motivation throughout the course of MSG.


wantsaarntsreekill

Kind of have to agree with the statement. The origin leads into MSG, but definitely does not substitute for MSG, Zeta, then ZZ. It was definitely hard for me to get through MSG and Zeta, and currently like halfway through ZZ. To me, Origin is an OVA that helps supplement the the UC trilogy just like Unicorn is, but nowadays it is treated as a standalone entry point. After I finished SEED, I can definitely see the criticisms levied at Origin and Unicorn, especially as a starting point. I definitely say people should go with the alternate timelines.


Red-Zaku-

Totally agree. It’s like riddled with inconsistencies. Firstly he has adult intelligence as a child which is odd, like Char is not a character known for being galaxy-brained as an adult. And then as a mere adolescent he’s already just letting countless innocent bodies pile up for his advantage (the first Char, a plane full of people including children, any friend who learns his identity), even though again we see in MSG that he doesn’t just throw his comrades away and doesn’t seem callous to his comrades’ deaths, like he speaks with sincerity and respect to the Zaku pilot as he burns up on atmospheric entry. Also MSG Char is shown to be distinctly different from Garma’s demeanor, seeing him as elitist and spoiled. Like among the Zeon aristocracy he’s basically not interested in playing along, and is very much a down-to-business soldier among wine-sniffers. But in Origin, Char’s turning his nose up at people, fitting in at a fancy party, getting into ego contests with others. But most importantly... Char’s entire arc is all about being frustrated as a powerless passenger to history. Like in MSG he doesn’t have a grand political play beyond his Zabi hunting. In Zeta he’s an idealist who is desperately struggling to bring about the original Zeon doctrine of environmentalism, ridding the world of tyrannical rule, freedom for space, and for the Earthnoids to finally migrate... yet he’s constantly finding himself standing in exterminated colonies, pleading for mankind to migrate even to the point of revealing his identity yet making no progress, trying to mentor a troubled kid and failing him, even the last Zabi who had a chance at a new life ended up brainwashed and it totally broke him and made his emotions ruin the desperate political maneuvering of the AEUG. And then finally CCA culminates in the result of his feelings of powerlessness. He’s taking a radically destructive path because he’s basically been broken down by his efforts, all his maneuvers have failed and the world couldn’t be set right to his father’s ideal, so now he’s desperately taking such a crazy path since it’s all he has left within his abilities. But Origin Char can’t really be this same guy. Rather than being this passionate, vulnerable character with glaring weaknesses who is driven to madness by his inability to affect change, Origin Char is passionless and invulnerable, unfazed by all difficulty thrown in his way as he breezes by it all and literally uses genius level political maneuvering as a mere teenager and young adult, to literally sculpt the political climate of the OYW and therefore the most significant historical turn of the entire Universal Century.


dummypod

I see your point. I recently only started watching MSG on Netflix and was surprised that Char was just a good soldier. With Garma Char does have some genuine respect for him, even though he deeply resents his family and does nothing to hurt him until an opportunity comes that is too hard to pass up.


Pathogen188

Origin Char feels like a real life version of Full Frontal. It's like the writers totally missed all the nuance and tragedy that makes Char Char and only focused on the "kills feddies and doesn't afraid of anything" aspect of his character, just like how Neo Zeon was so obssessed with Char as a legendary ace pilot that their clone of him is named after his piloting style. It's caught up with the myth of the Red Comet and totally missed Char Azanable as a person.


wantsaarntsreekill

The consistencies may be enough to indicate that there may be some timeline splitting where The Origin does take place in an alternate reality. An alternate reality where if a remake of MSG, Zeta does happen, the Origin will be in it. Of course there likely won't be canon material that actually splits the reality. This is just my theory. I don't expect them to remake MSG and Zeta


Rikacchi

Absolutely agree. You can't fully appreciate Origin and Char without watching the important UC bits up until CCA. It would also help you to understand the discrepancies in various aspects presented by Origin (but then again bandai's whole animated = canon thing exists so lul).


the_name0

Yet thunderbolt isn't considered canon so that rule goes out the window. I've learned not to care about canon over the years watching gundam. Some stuff makes sense, others don't. I enjoy stories for what they are rather than neatly placing them in a checkbox of whether they are true events or not. Given Turn A is my favorite series, I've decided everything and nothing is canon.


Death_Usagi

Still waiting for continuation.... :( I want to see RX-78-02 Gundam in action with the current era animation technology... Zakus had all the glory in the OVA series so far..... yet no Gundam.... T\_T


Rikacchi

Sorry but no. There's much to be watched before Origin on top of the fact that it's riddled with inconsistencies due to it being a prequel and reimagining of UC. Bandai's whole stance of anime = canon just adds another layer of inconsistencies on top of UC being a cluster fuck of lore to begin with. OYW really sets the basis for everything including AU imo. The whole Gundams being op thing stressed in Wing and 00 are better emphasized once you've watched enough other gundam and understand how it differs from a regular ms. Hell even something as braindead as Build fighters is chocked full of fanservice and references that you can truely appreciate having watched many other shows


Abouttofall

As someone who started with The Origin. I can also say that it serves as great entry. Yeah you know some important plot points beforehand but the characters and their story gain a lot of weight. You can prefer it either way, I don't care how you got into gundam UC as long as you enjoy it and havd fun.


vann_of_fanelia

I watched the UC timeline in Chronological order so yeah I also think origin is a great starting point for newcomers. And for other newbies who want an alternate time line I think either iron blood or 00 is a good starting point.


SmilyT1

I would've personally recommended the trilogy movies for MSG after Origin


GoldenGouf

Nope.


Go_Boho

The Origin manga series is what got me into the UC timeline. Disappointed they only adapted the Chat backstory into anime. I think the series could use a remake of Gundam 79. I promise it'll pull more people in than just telling them to watch the movie trilogy or original series.


CantCatchMeSucka69

Not really. That series is boring as hell. Less of a gundam show and more of a badly written character drama.