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LibertyAndVirtue

I asked Phate at CNEVpost to clarify what ES7 means on today's NeoPark article. ES7 was rumored to be an SUV a while ago. An SUV refresh wouldn't generate nearly as much buzz as a "Porsche Killer." If NIO's teasing a "one more thing" reveal in front of a giant audience at NIO Day, and it's merely a refreshed SUV, it would be anticlimactic. I think Taycan is an easy target (crummy interior, awful interface). EP9 team has had 6 years of development and a NIO sports car would boost the brand substance. There's always a chance for MPV considering the self-driving team expansion: https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/12/nios-self-driving-team-to-expand-60-to-800-within-the-year/


Rough_Original2973

ES - Electric SUV. Just like the ES6 and the ES8, I can imagine that ES7, if launched, would be an SUV as well. Just FYI for the whole group: * ES - Electric SUV (ES6 , ES8): Traditional SUV (5/7/8 seat config) with a non-sloping roof line at the rear * EC - Electric Coupé (EC6): 4-door SUV Coupe with a sloping roofline at the rear C-pillar * ET - ElecTric sedan (ET7) : Traditional Saloon (4 door configuration) with a trunk that is separate from passengers in a 3 box configuration (Enginer/Passenger/Cargo) * EP - Electric Performance (EP9): Sports car with 2-seater configuration with minimal cargo area. Car is designed to maximize acceleration, speed and handling. There are new product lines that are speculated in the future, namely the EF product line. I suspect EF = Electric Family (multi purpose-vehicle).


LibertyAndVirtue

[https://youtu.be/vCe4oM8EPoo?t=712](https://youtu.be/vCe4oM8EPoo?t=728) \^\^\^ \* hint hint \* \^\^\^ EC6 is still an SUV. Why would they call the SUV one step below ES8, "Project Gemini" and plan to produce only 60K units for an SUV? That's only a bit more than double ES8 sales at 5,000 per month when ES8 sells about 2,000 per month. ET7 and ET5 will be competitive. What we need is news on production capacity. A Porsche Killer would be even more competitive and bring considerable brand notoriety on NIO Day and for years after.


brainlessbet

China has the demand for the MPV. It’s proven. A taycan killer is cool but not practical for a growth company. The market will definitely be smaller and harder to sell than a MPV.


LibertyAndVirtue

Fair point, and I imagine Apple Car would be an MPV for robotaxi. Based on the below rumor, I wonder if ES7 will replace the SUVs next year as an ADDITIONAL reveal: [https://twitter.com/Klp168/status/1458351606500454401](https://twitter.com/Klp168/status/1458351606500454401) Here is the first post: [https://twitter.com/Klp168/status/1458351006211723265](https://twitter.com/Klp168/status/1458351006211723265)


Rough_Original2973

ES7 would throw things off for me to be honest. I can't think of a middle ground between the ES6 and the ES8. In the past, I have heard that the higher the number rating, the more 'premium' the car. The common denominator is '7'. So maybe the 7-series (like the ET7) are retrofitted with lidar sensors, wherease the 5,6 and 8 series (do not have the lidar sensors). I hope NIO releases their grading rubrik on how they land on 5, 6,7,8 or 9 numbering scheme. Edit: I have read elsewhere that the 'ES7' was 'fake-news' for a lack of better words. This makes sense as it sounds like NIO is shooting for even numbers = SUV style, odd number = sedan style What we know so far: 6 (even number) is their SUV line-up (EC6, ES6) 8 (even number) is their full sized SUV line up (ES8) 7 (odd number) is their full sized Sedan (ET7) 5 (odd number) is their mid-sized Sedan. ET5 rumoured to lunch NIO day 2021. 3 (odd number) maybe their compact-sized sedan. Rumoured to launch in 2022 Nio Day to compete with BMW 2-series and perhaps, rumored 'Tesla Model 2' 9 (odd number) is their performance sportscar. ​ Then again I just saw this article: [https://www.chinapev.com/ev-2/nio/nios-compact-suv-nio-es3-to-debut-at-the-end-of-2019/](https://www.chinapev.com/ev-2/nio/nios-compact-suv-nio-es3-to-debut-at-the-end-of-2019/) Edit2 : [https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/03/nio-denies-it-will-launch-es7-next-year/](https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/03/nio-denies-it-will-launch-es7-next-year/) NIO denied launch of ES7 So yeah, Im super confused.


LibertyAndVirtue

My comment below this article will clarify: [https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/03/nio-denies-it-will-launch-es7-next-year/](https://cnevpost.com/2021/08/03/nio-denies-it-will-launch-es7-next-year/) It might be better to have one updated SUV. Maybe that's the plan for ES7. Lidar on an SUV is currently [being tested](https://twitter.com/nionewsglobal/status/1444351685292351497). We'll have to wait and see.


aecolu

all three new models are on platform 2.0 and would have lidars... so et5 has lidar. they do need a premium suv on platform 2.0


LibertyAndVirtue

I've been doing some research: NIO confirmed that "Project Gemini" is not ES7. Project Gemini is built by JAC-NIO next year. But there is no reason why the Weibo rumors about ES7 cannot be true, namely that ES7 is a replacement for ES6 & ES8, slated to be built next year at NeoPark and revealed at April's Beijing Auto Show. Replacing 2 SUVs with 1 updated SUV wouldn't contradict the announcement of 2 new models on the 2.0 platform, would it? Or is that wishful thinking? Best case-scenario, NIO Day includes: ET5, Gemini, mass-bass brand name. Then H1 2022 reveal of the first mass-bass model and ES7 at next April's Beijing Auto Show.


Rough_Original2973

The numbering scheme throws me off abit. The '7-series' are odd numbered and I think it may be reserved for Sedans only. Ie: ET3, ET5, ET7, EP9 are all Sedan class type vehicle. Wheres the even numbered NIO car models, EC6, ES6,ES8 are all SUV class type vehicles. Also I would add the Chinese dont liek the number '4', because it is sounds like 'death' in Mandarin. So Maybe their SUV lineups will be 2,6,8 series.


rkay0820

Liberty -- I am HOPING that in ES7 -- S means Sports, 7 means High End, Gemini was indicated as limited output of 60,000 EVs. Refreshed SUV or even Toyota Alpha Targeted MPV would both be big disappointments to me. Also would do nothing to extend current RMB 300,000 to 500,000 Price Range. Also would be contrary to WIlliam Li soft spoken humble but Killer Instinct Assassin persona that I personally associate with him. BaaS ET5 takes Price Range down to RMB 230,000 approx. & with ES7 Porsche Killer up to RMB 700,000. PERFECTO Mon Ami


LibertyAndVirtue

Crouching Tiger Hidden Li Bin. Yeah with 60,000 output, it makes sense. The EF9 trademark was registered in March. The May trademarks were: ET6, ET9, ES7, ES9, EC5, EC9, EZ7, EE5. We don't know why conflicting rumors are talking about ES7 but it's likely similar to ES8. NIO Porsche Killer would create buzz for years to come.


Zealousideal_Mind479

This is somewhat puzzling facts. Youre saying the millions of VW and Audis sold represent only 10% of VWs profit, yet Porsche reprent 90% of VWs profit? I find that hard to believe. Edit: Did quick research. VW group owns the following brands: Audi SEAT ŠKODA Bentley Bugatti Lamborghini Porsche Ducati Scania MAN


LibertyAndVirtue

Could be 55% of VW Group's profit according to this: [https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/porsche-most-profitable-vw-group-brand](https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/porsche-most-profitable-vw-group-brand) Porsche is its most profitable VW brand by far. u/rkay0820's sports car idea reminds me of the iPod Touch keynote. Jobs said iPod had no competition so they would go after the flash market. NIO has cornered BBA so they'll start going after Porsche. I think they have the brand foundation with Formula 333, EP Club, NIO House, BLUE SKY LAB. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12bjWBZKd30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12bjWBZKd30)


rkay0820

Liberty -- William Li stated that Porsche sales made up 90% of VW profits in recent earnings call


rkay0820

My source is William Li CEO of NIO. Go back & check recent earnings call transcript perhaps 2-3 quarter ago. You will find that William Li said that


LibertyAndVirtue

I think he said 40% of Net Profit comes from Porsche. But that's still a lot and illustrates your point. [https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/04/30/nio-inc-nio-q1-2021-earnings-call-transcript/#:\~:text=For%20example%2C%20Porsche,Net%20profit](https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/04/30/nio-inc-nio-q1-2021-earnings-call-transcript/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20Porsche,Net%20profit).


aecolu

dont forget vw owns like 50% of jac...