By - _Xyreo_
You mean just like Panasonic is finding out?
Making people work less days leads to increased productivity from more refreshed and positive workers?
WHO'D'A THUNK IT?! *rolls eyes*
Yeah but i doubt retail will catchup with this. This might only effect the highest earning and the most in demand workers otherwise we can only dream.
SSSSSHHHHHHH! They're catching on...
Don't jinx it! ;)
Nope. There is literally no commercial gain for them. A supermarket worker that slept for 4 hours and worked for 10 is just as good as one that slept for 8 and just came to work. Its not the same in academic environment or intelligence based work.
Or in healthcare. But they don't give a shit if the nurses' care is subpar either. As long as they can charge, charge, charge.
A nurse that injects wrong things can be the most expensive mistake the hospital makes for a long time
We're seeing record-breaking bonusses across the board while the system is collapsing. So Idk. Must work out somewhere for them.
Oh it absolutely does. But they will fire without thinking anyone that might damage hospitals image or cost them any money in lawsuit's
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Healthcare is complicated because shift change can be a source of a lot of mistakes.
>Nope. There is literally no commercial gain for them.
Until their commercial interests are hurt by "labor shortages" with agitated burned out workers.
>A supermarket worker that slept for 4 hours and worked for 10 is just as good as one that slept for 8 and just came to work. Its not the same in academic environment or intelligence based work.
Up until exhausted poverty wage workers become increasingly agitated against long hours/5+ days.
You can't protest and riot when you starve. People will work when they get hungry. That's unfortunate but it's the truth. Nearly no one especially people exploited in the workforce can afford long term strike's
You can't work when you starve or become increasingly violently agitated by unsustainable poverty either. (Especially while some already skip meals to pay unsustainable rent)
More people will escalate when they get hungry, not poverty work that left them hungry in the first place.
The people who will work indefinitely until the unsustainable poverty economy collapses underneath them (eliminating their job anyway), didn't get enraged enough over their unsustainable poverty.
Starving (or any escalating poverty) only increases the risk of protests and riots.
>Nearly no one especially people exploited in the workforce can afford long term strike's
"No one can afford" doesn't mean a lot when those strikes exist because people found out they couldn't afford to continue working in unsustainable poverty where they would lose everything with or without their job.
This is literally why Rome collapsed. Once the grain stopped flowing from newly conquered land because the Roman economy was basically a Ponzi scheme before Ponzi was born, they couldn't keep the proletarii fed or occupied. When they tried to hike up taxes on the Roman peasantry and outlying gentry to make up for this, they said fuck it, got the fuck on and didn't give a shit about the Roman government, and we had the middle ages which eventually became feudalism.
There's a couple ways this can play out from the perspective of the US: a) the world goes through a delinking where a just in time global supply chain gets replaced with a just in case mostly local supply chain, b) they do nothing, the whole thing collapses where you see riots over necessities (not the same ones everywhere) basically everywhere due to the fractured supply chain possibly leading to revolution or c) people legit just get the fuck on and while not a violent overthrow of everything, would collapse the current state.
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not even that they are greedy. This just doesnt make any economical sense for them. There is nothing better about a worker that works less time for similar pay.
>not even that they are greedy. This just doesnt make any economical sense for them.
Greed literally just defines their "economical sense".
>There is nothing better about a worker that works less time for similar pay.
Until workers in a "labor shortage" decide there's nothing better about employers that demand longer hours for shit pay in a dystopia of tired and agitated people.
Not an issue you just find a never and better employee.
retails is barebones to the point where they will either have to find a way to make the lowest rung happy or be forced to start closing locations which will also cost them in terms of breaking leases.
But in retail most jobs are hourly so getting another day off instead of earning minimum wage means you really can't pay the bills.
I heard slave owners figured out long ago that you get more work per week out of a slave in 5.5 days than you do in 7.
It’s not about money. It’s about control Over the working class.
Me fear is that there's going to be a "bad takeaway" lesson from this. All of these headlines say "fewer working days is better" but we need the same pay. (Or better) I think the bosses will say to themselves: "So, I can pay my employees less by cutting their hours and I get more work out of them? Well, I could give that a try." Then we slide further into decilne.
Tbh i would happily take less money if it meant i worked 4 days a week.
Same, but we're lucky we can afford to take less money
Also, it’s a great way to attract top talent, which is going to have a positive effect on their bottom line.
Companies have known this for years, but they have to have their control.
It really is about control. People in management have a weird idea that they are entitled to run the lives of the people that work for the company.
If you work five days a week, you can't go for an interview or apply for jobs during a weekday.
not really it was part of the work culture for years now to work 5 days and rest 2. Since there was close to no fight for the employee nothing changed. But only the most educated and sought after workers might experience those positive changes since they are actually faught for by their employers.
We could try this thing out called unions. Makes everyone sought after.
Playing devils advocate here, if I was the company exec I would be hesitant to jump to causation there. How much is the fact that they just went from a 5 day work week to a 4 day work week play in? After a year of a 4 day work week would we still see the same level of productivity? Or has the 4 day week become the new normal and employees go back to slacking the same as they used to? Is it genuinely more rest = more work? Or just the context of having more free time than "normal"? Personally I would slack off the maximum amount of time possible either way because fuck working. I dont think there's any natural amount of hours for someone to work because work is mostly unnatural nowadays.
A 3-day weekend has always made so much sense to me. One day for decompressing, one day for activities, one day for getting ready for the week ahead.
I've been working a 4-day workweek for a bit now -- Wednesdays off. My favorite thing about it is that every work day is either the day before or the day after a day off. It's refreshing!
I'd even say it would be better to just split up workweek and keep the 2 day weekend. It would be great
Have Wednesdays off in addition to Saturdays and Sundays? Where do I sign up?
I'll easily take a 3 day weekend over a split up week. I'd say 3 day weekend is better.
A combination of both sounds good. That way different parts of society can keep functional while other parts take their well deserved break. If some people have a Wednesday off and some people have Friday off, then it all works in tandem
Even better make the day off somewhat random. I would love to be able to access everything without lines and shop in somewhat empty malls during work hours for other people
People are more productive when they're not overworked.
What a wild idea.
Next someone might propose something really crazy, like that workers should have more rights, job security, and be paid for every second of work they do.
will America ever have a 4 day work week? At this point things seem so terrible that it sounds impossible
If we ever do, it will definitely not apply to retail, food service, prison laborers, and farm workers.
Those kind of perks (like the weekend) are typically only granted to privileged workers.
I believe it but have you got a source for everyone else?
I got you: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-says-4-day-workweek-boosted-workers-productivity-by-40
> Microsoft Japan says it became more efficient in several areas, including lower electricity costs, which fell by 23%. And as its workers took five Fridays off in August, they printed nearly 60 percent fewer pages.
> **All of the employees who took Fridays off were given special paid leave, the company says.** Encouraged by the results, it plans to hold a similar trial in the winter.
Looks like taking Fridays off was just optional? Feels a bit sus.
> Because of the shorter workweek, the company also put its meetings on a diet. The standard duration for a meeting was slashed from 60 minutes to 30 — an approach that was adopted for nearly half of all meetings. In a related cut, standard attendance at those sessions was capped at five employees.
> Looks like taking Fridays off was just optional? Feels a bit sus.
Maybe not; the work culture in Japan is legendarily ... "more"... than in the west.
I've heard that in some jobs, taking all the allotted PTO is a big no-no. So it matters to me whether or not Fridays were canceled outright or if the option to take them without losing pay was simply made available.
That's a good point, and as an American I can't hope to understand the subtleties of Japanese culture.
Easily found with a google search. Many articles about it.
Do you have the link to those?
I currently work a 4 day week, 4x10 hour shifts. It's significantly better than working 5 days a week, even though the 10's fucking suck, especially since I'm at a job where work from home isn't possible.
Really? How do you stand working for 10 hours straight? That was suggested to me but I couldn't see myself making it through that every day.
It's definitely hard, but luckily I have a pretty chill software engineering job. I get in, pop my headphones on, and just focus on my work (or browse reddit while I'm waiting for things to compile/go through the testing pipeline).
And at the end of the experiment they went back to a 5 day work work
I can almost guarantee retail won't go for that, the problem is that they're too greedy and there would need to be a law in place for it.
You think if there's 5 local supermarkets to you and 4 of them decide that they're going to work 4 day weeks and close one day, the 5th will stay open on that day because its the only place people can shop and they'll make a killing from it, it'll be their busiest day.
The only other option would be that the 5 supermarkets choose a day each to close, but then who gets left with the Friday short straw, assuming that's one of their busier days
I don’t think it would need to be about the stores closing as much as shift staggering so the store can be open 7 days but a person only works four of them.
But then how do you account for the loss of staff on those days?
For you to get paid a 5 day salary over 4 days means that whatever company it is, is losing out on 20% productivity from their entire staff, so to make that up you've got to either lose quality or hire more people.
Let's be honest, most places aren't going to want to increase their staffing by 20% and maybe some places can't afford that, like independent restaurants etc.
Then you've got the problem of equality there right?
Imagine a scenario where Office workers suddenly get a 3 day weekend with no downside and all of manufactoring and retail have to stick with 5 days
You've fixed one problem but created another
>I can almost guarantee retail won't go for that, the problem is that they're too greedy and there would need to be a law in place for it.
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Jason Fried's books anyone?
Executives reading this: “Wow they improved productivity by going to 4 days, think if they went to 6 days instead! Productivity would skyrocket!”
They all know 4 day work weeks are more productive but they won't EVER give it us because it will make us happy and that's not very respectful for us to feel happiness.
You would think that a company that figured out this inverse relationship would be like...ok we discovered FIRE or something, let's expand this idea across a few more business units to make sure it works everywhere...but no, instead let's bury this information because we don't understand it.
It's the same thing with restaurants we read about that raised worker wages. Oddly, their products didn't go up in price.
But these places aren't in the US. Because we live in Bizarro world, where solid evidence can't stand up to these fantasies spun by corporations, politicians and business owners.
Wow. It's almost like employees with a life, who aren't exhausted, perform better.
I'd work a lot harder if I had to work less hours.
Provided that the pay matched the effort.
Right now I am forced to work harder for less money.
Sometimes i wonder if people work just 120% in 4 days, just to meet the deadlines. That could also lead to being more"productive".
It’s the same time worked. We should be striving for working less. This is just working at different times of the day.
This needs a source.
Tried... and then canned it in favour of.... ...... ...... more productivity......
I'm so desperate for this to take off in Canada that I'm actually using my vacation time to take fridays off for the next two and a half months. Yep, that's where I'm at.
But, but ... the miserable old white cunt that runs the show needs you there a minimum of five days a week. For one his home life is a constant carnival of misery with some one who would leave him standing there in his underwear in a divorce - you can't force him to spend any more time in that environment - & watching his minion peasants running hither & yon in response to his power is the only thing that gives him a semi erection these days. & you're prepared to deny him this small thing just so you can take long weekends? Shame. Shame on you all.
I don’t see how a 4 day work week helps customer service based roles tho
The way you'd solve this issue imo is by having an 8 day work week. 5 days on 3 days off. Everyone's schedule is revolving so all days of the week are covered, and you still get 3 days off.
Interesting proposal im not sure why I’m getting so many dislikes tho its hilarious
Yeah this is what I was thinking as well. Service roles are still gonna be needed, they're not just gonna suddenly shut down shops and restaurants for 3 days a week. This really benefits white-collar workers but I'm not sure how it benefits anyone else. Still, at least it benefits someone!
You can just spread out 4-day workweeks with shifts, it's not rocket science...
Have you seen the turnover, or staff count in a restaurant, or most places in the service industry?
Your statements aren't based in reality. The costs easily outweigh the benefits.
I'm a former restaurant worker smarty pants.
Turnover, lack of working conditions and profit margins on the service industry are just based on one simple factor: the owner's capability and skill.
If you can't retain employees and still make money, you're a bad business owner and you're doomed to fail. Better just to close up shop.
I know that there's a stigma in free market about the easiness that should exist when creating a business but entrepreneurs are scared shitless of the possibility of having a business being closed.
It should be easy both ways and not as happens nowadays: owners cutting corners and receiving government stimuli, forgiven loans, and still underpaying employees or committing wage theft: just to increase profit margins for shareholders.
Either you transform your business or let the market transform you. COVID threw the service industry into a shitstorm and revealed the weak foundations it lies upon, it's time to transform the industry.
You say its not based in reality but... there's already a two day weekend. Service industry has managed to work with that, this would just mean they need to alter the specifics of their scheduling so that it covers a Friday weekend.
Okay you've clearly never worked in retail, dining, or anywhere in the service industry for that matter.
I have. I’m not saying it’s an instant easy change, but it’s not an industry ruining change by any means, just something new to work through.
Well that usually why you hire more than 1 person
This is why i don’t think it will be a thing at all since it’s not really a universal solution
Yes it is. They just need to staff it appropriately and not shut down for the day. It's not like they can't stagger schedules like every employer ever in history including them already does.
The problem in my company is there’s not in enough staff in my department for this lool
That's your company's fault, but I getcha.
That sales at this point is pretty self sustaining...yes we all knew that.
It doesn't matter to the ones who are against it by principle. They don't want to hear the numbers, they just want everyone to continue suffering because that's nOrMaL
This sounds like a dream. How does this actually work though? How are people able to do 40% more work in 20% less time?
1. Cut back on fluffed up meetings. It’s been one thing I’ve seen as a universal problem in all kinds of businesses. Meetings are suppose to either settle a conflict within an organization regarding direction or inform people of the direction as decided. But what I’ve noticed is in most cases it becomes a grandstanding ceremony rather than a useful communication mode.
2. Set reasonable targets for the new work schedule (make your work into more discrete steps when possible).
3. Add more specialized roles and hire more people for them.
It’s not less time. I think it’s just 4 10hr days
“But imagine how much would get done if the employees put in a full effort for the full day five days a week!”
work less do more?
WHat a fuCKing coNcepT
My work is slowly considering the same, even though we're not even mandated to work in office anymore.
But if we don't work all the time, how will keep ourselves from sinning?
Because they still give u deadlines so u rush like crazy mon-thurs to finish whatever is due
I tried to find out if they kept the 4 day week but I can't find the answer.
Yeah, but what about our work culture?? Having free time and a work life balance that includes less work would be incompatible with our values of working you like a rented mule, gaslighting, and exploiting you! Won't someone think of the CuLtUrE?
I can see it now.
Mgmt: Well, we switched to a four-day week last year and we saw productivity explode! It's amazing!
Workers: Yeah. It's nice to be treated like we have our own lives.
Mgmt: This year, to expand on our profits, we will be adding a fifth day to the work week and to show our appreciation, there's a new Monopoly board in the break room so you can have fun and everyone gets a free water bottle!
Some people at my work works 3 days at week from 6 to 6, and the next week they work 4 days. But we can't shutdown. But high roles can't do that because they need to supervise the work. They work 5 days
, 9 hours
My take on the topic, in case you might be interested in another example of the 4-day work week and why I support it 100%:
I worked a 4 day work week for a year. It felt just about right.
But American companies are too scared/ignorant to try anything different. Those companies married to the “old way” will continue struggling with their own limitations.
Yeah let's list some good companies instead of only the bad ones
I know from couple of friends, that they still worked the same hours, only they didn’t clock in…
But I fully support the idea!
Worked at a place that had every other Friday off. It was wonderful. Company had other issues, but the Fridays off was awesome. I would encourage any manager or owner than frequents this sub to take a hard look at doing this. Even better, try Mondays instead. I just started a new job, and in the next 6 months I plan on bringing this idea up.
this kind of stuff is why when i had the freedom to make my own schedule in the past, i'd always schedule monday, tuesday, thursday, friday and then either sat or sun (i left both open since i have nothing to do, they pay more and the employer could just fill me in as needed for either of them. they had a policy against planning someone into both weekend days)
being able to recharge after every two or three days of work massively helped reduce work stress and tiredness to the point where when we were working from home, the company asked me what i was doing because my efficiency was the only one to continue rising while most of the other employees dropped.
granted i did also make a proper home office setup instead of "on the couch with my laptop and a cold beer", but i did end up investing in a wireless microphone and some speakers so i could walk around my office during calls. i did tech support but 3/4ths of the calls i could literally do while cleaning the floor, making a sandwich or many other things.
On the topic of letting employees have more freedom; it was Robert Pullman of the Pullman trains who caused so much suffering because he didn't understand he couldn't actually, legally OWN his employees as slaves, that was made illegal due to an entire war.
It's almost like happy people work harder ......
In other news a hole in a boat makes for a shorter trip and at 8 we discuss why falling off a ladder is not beneficial to your health.
If a 4 day work week was given I would actually work harder so it would not be retracted.
As someone who worked a 4 day week then started a 5 day work week. A 4 day work week is a lot better than 5. I had so much more time to run errands, make doctor appointments on my week day off. Now I'm struggling to book a dentist appointment because I'd have to take the day off and working in the Healthcare industry... One person off means hell for everyone else working. Yes I was more productive during a 4 day week until I got burnt out.
im a HUGE fan of 4 10 hour shifts myself
I'd rather have four 6-hour days.
U do u
Lotta part time jobs out there