T O P
_Rocketstar_

Just tell them your vacation plans are non refundable so you cant cancel


1600hazenstreet

And ask for compensation for non refundable vacation.


asund_

Then pay $100 and reschedule.


LBoogie5Bang

And charge a replanning a whole new vacation schedule fee. Something reasonable $10k. Im sure thats still less then the surgeries.


MoreRamenPls

Send pics to them of your vacation.


rustys_shackled_ford

I'd just say I was having surgery and that's why I was taking my vacation time.... since apparently that's an adequate excuse


MaeK47

Yeah and it’s personal so your uncomfortable disclosing details but should be all good 5-7 days later to return


rustys_shackled_ford

The great thing about medical excuses is they can't really ask allot of questions.


[deleted]

Long ago I worked with this guy who did it in a hilarious way but he was so dead-pan and straight faced about it that it never got denied. "Hey I can't work this weekend, just found out my father contracted HIV from a prostitute" Management knew it was bullshit but he was *just* good enough at his job that replacing him would've been slightly more of a hassle.


ScamLikely336

Ahhh...the sweet spot.


rt66paul

I used to work High OT temp jobs. Typically, you could get a small draw at the end of the first week and then had to wait another week or 2 for the first real payday. We had been working back to back 12 hr shifts and waiting for19 or 20 days for a paycheck was bad enough. So, on payday, the boss comes around with his clipboard for ot that night. I took it always, but my helper looked the boss in the eye and told him his wife started f\*\*king at 6pm on payday with or without him and he wanted to be there. Good news - he got the evening off. The bad news, he had to start at midnight and work through until noon sat


_Rocketstar_

Technically they shouldnt be asking questions about any time off requests. You dont owe the company your private life and the company does not own you.


SnooEagles6930

How long did you have your vacation scheduled for and how long did they have the surgery scheduled for


Prestigious-Rumfield

I was going to Spain, so almost 2 weeks.


MacduffFifesNo1Thane

You are going to Spain. You're not getting refunds on your plane tickets and hotels. Unless they want to reimburse you, you're going to Spain.


pablank

Which is what every company would do in this situation... Ask for a holiday bonus on top as a thank you for the flexibility. And if there truly are companies that wouldnt reimburse you... then why the fuck even work there?


FaustsAccountant

*American employee laugh/crying over here. We “get” to keep our jobs


IdkWhtsRealNyMre

Because having time off from work is a "privilege" in the US. They don't want us to work to live. They want us to live to work. God forbid you ever sit down. "*If you aren't standing, you aren't working!*"


jbwilso1

"You got time to lean, you got time to clean."


Few-Repeat-5816

Go. To. Spain.


joepanda111

No one ever inspects the Spanish vacation


forevericeland

I think they meant how long ago did you schedule the time off ?


Familiar_Season8438

Yeah lol they definitely didn't answer the question


TheOT1001

You *ARE* going to spain


syds

actually fuck it, I have decided we ALL are going to Spain


mlstdrag0n

Woo! Spain!


Bo7a

Look under your chairs. You get a Spain. And they get a Spain. EVERYONE gets a Spain


brainwhatwhat

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH VACATION!


BostonFan69

Are we really doing this man


Inner_Perspective_97

We're also gonna watch a football match woooh!


moreshoesplz

Perfect timing, my clients have been driving me insane. I call aisle seat.


yeswecann

Te vas a España 🇪🇸👙


ThirdEncounter

¿Dónde está la biblioteca? ¡En España! Una cerveza española, por favor.


LawOfTheSeas

Me llamo T-Bone, la araña discoteca.


dingillo

Discoteca, muñeca, la biblioteca,


retropunk2

Your tickets are purchased. You're going to Spain. Do not cave. It's their problem.


ooo0000ooo0000ooo

Or they pay for the tickets and compensate you for your troubles. That's how it works where I work. Doesn't happen often.


Jonny7Tenths

Agreed. Many contracts, mine included, have an exigent circumstances clause permitting them to cancel leave. My own approach would be to ask when the surgeries were booked / notified and, if this has been sprung on them, be reasonable about it. You may need their goodwill in the future.


Sendatsu69

How long the surgeries have been booked may be irrelevant depending on the type of surgery (elective surgery vs emergent surgery). But I agree with the fact that negotiation and compensation should be discussed. Maybe a temp could be hired instead.


therealRustyZA

Absolutely. When I went to Amsterdam for a music show boss wanted me back two days earlier for a similar thing. Asked me to change my flights. I had plans for those days. I didn’t. They managed fine for those two days. Don’t change anything. You go and enjoy your holiday. It’s not your company and you’ve booked the days. That surgery sounds like a “their” problem. Don’t sacrifice your life for a company. I did it for many years. Many years too much before a came to my senses.


DrummerAdmirable3482

Can relate. Don’t do it! They will replace you in two seconds the moment you resign. No one is indispensable.


ToughCredit7

THIS!!! Don't let NO boss or ANYONE for that matter, manipulate or guilt-trip you.


Gaudern

This is a correct response, but not the full answer. You can also use this as an opportunity. Have the company reinburse all costs related to cancelling the vacation and ask for/demand a nice hefty bonus/wage rise. Of course, the bonus/wage rise should reflect the fact that you ARE cancelling YOUR holiday. This may not be the correct response for everyone, but it's definitely an option.


tails99

I remember someone posting about having various vacation issues. So he now purposefully purchases a refundable trip, and when his boss inevitably messed with his vacation, he was reimbursed and kept his refund. Smart.


AffordableFirepower

How did we let our lives get this way? I'm tired of all these pointless games. Just let me live my god damned life.


m1st3r_c

Because magnanimity died with the late stages of capitalism. Everyone has to look out for themselves now, and there are so many rules, laws and loopholes now that you need to be smart so you're not being taken advantage of by greedy fucks.


AStrangerSaysHi

I used to work for a convention planning company. We had travel agents on staff. They would also help you out with personal travel. They would always do this for us, and they would help us get the refund as well as get the reimbursement if our vacations were canceled.


Tutes013

That's so disgustingly sneaky and completely fucking deserved. I like it.


HarithBK

It is time to negotiate. The norm is they pay for what you can't get back when you cancel. A bonus for breaking vacation and 200% pay for those weeks. Get it in writing and the money for canceling needs to be in the account before you do it.


NikolasP98

Bro I swear to god if you dont go to Spain and enjoy the short time we have in this life for some miserable manager that can'tmanage shit, then you're being played. Big time.


Technochick

OP should tell them he is going to spain to get surgery. Seems to work for everyone else at that company.


The_Lost_Jedi

Probably would be cheaper than having it done in the US, too. And that's including the airfare and hotel stay.


turf_life

This is the answer. I wasn't allowed holidays for 8 years and because of that I never saw my grandfather before he passed away. Fuck work, go on your holiday and enjoy it. Work will be there when you get back and they will figure it out. Not your problem.


thrwwy2402

Underpaid and no real pto at my old job. Missed my grandmother funeral.


Anesthetic_

Worked shitty restaurant jobs since I was 16. About to be 34 and recently started a new job. First shift. PTO. Paid sick days. Paid holidays. Weekends off. I wasted so much of my life working for shitty people.


thrwwy2402

Same here, when I started I my current job I could not believe what a fucked system we have we capitalism. And now, we are experiencing baby fórmula shortages and I have noticed people taking advantage of the situation to scalp God damn baby food. What the fuck are we doing y'all?


Illustrious_Stick652

100%, you will never be lying on your deathbed, and wish you went to work. You will wish you went to spain.


T8RTheSalad

100% this attitude. You never know what will happen between war, COVID, and everything else that life normally throws your way. Go now. It's just a job and I'm assuming you've already paid. Non-refundable tickets, sorry. Nothing I can do about it. Guess you'll need to hire a temp to help hold down the fort.


Spottedstealth

I wish hiring temps in this kind of situation was more common, honestly. As someone who has worked as a temp, I'd be totally cool with helping out for just six weeks while someone recovers from surgery. I get that training someone for that short of a time might be a pain, but an extra pair of hands can take a lot of stress off the main team while a bunch of people are out at the same time.


MrSomnix

Every day I log into reddit and see another celebrity dead due to some common illness. If these people with fame and millions of dollars can drop dead at any moment, then I **definitely** can. OP needs to go to Spain and start planning their next trip the second the plane lands back home.


Raptr117

I did this shit with one of my summer jobs in college, and to be fair, I wasn’t even going to work for them for more than three months. My dad told me he was going to Colorado to visit his brother and asked if I wanted to come, which the answer was shit yes but let me check with work. By the time I ended up asking them if I could take time off to go, I remember saying “look, I’ll be honest, at this point it’s more or less ‘will I have a job when I get back’ not a can I go”


adudeknownaszed

I work with college kids at a university and I get this all the time. It makes me laugh more than anything. I never say no. I encourage the kids to make the most of life and take advantage of opportunies because I wish I had. All I ask is that they give me as much notice as possible. They all know I don't say no, and so far almost all of them have given me time and a heads up to make plans to ensure work is good. They dont worry. My stress is reduced. Sometimes I'm super short on people, but it's a pretty small price to pay to have a reliable crew that keeps coming back.


Lazy-Trust-4633

Genuinely hats off to you as a manager. You seem to understand that work serves humanity, humanity should not serve work. Thank you on behalf of the kids who work with you.


adudeknownaszed

Thanks. I really just don't want work to be stressful. People have enough going on in their lives without work complicating things more.


LifeLibertyPancakes

I used to be the reliable employee, always got walked on, would cover other people's shifts and watch their vacations through photos while I was behind the counter asking "Hello! How can I help you?" One summer (and therein after) our college town was hosting a Jehova's Witness Convention. I saw a flier one day maybe about a month or two in advance while at the convention center for a separate event, and I immediately went to work and requested all those weekends off as I was working 11am-8pm M-Sat for this restaurant and said I had family coming to visit from out of town that do not live in the country. Surprisingly, I got the time off approved and immediately got a call back requesting me to postpone my family time once they saw the convention being advertised in the local paper. Absolutely not. This job never had PTO, OT, actual meal breaks etc. One big giant labor dept violation. I just stayed bc my parents knew the owner and put up with that shit bc I was young and didn't know any better. I ended up quitting later down the line for other reasons. They weren't going to pay for my PTO (shady business) anyway and I still busted my ass like an idiot. Never again. My job now? Weekends off. I graduate next month and plan on taking time off to unwind and destress from school.


Kwhyc

Agreed. When my daughter was born my employer at the time would not let me take two weeks off to be there for her and my wife who had to have an emergency cesarian section. It was one of the biggest regrets of my life that I didn't fight for it. Take your time off! And enjoy every minute of it.


Robadamous

You’ve paid for your vacation. They either compensate you for it (price of what you paid plus another week of vacation) or yuh go on vacation. Unless the surgery is urgent; they can also be postponed.


FinalRun

Exactly. It's probably a fraction of what hiring and training a replacement would cost. Or a week of shutting the doors.


Molto_Ritardando

Dude what happened to temp agencies? Weren’t they kinda invented for this very purpose??


SRD1194

That, or having sufficient staffing to cover *exactly this kind of thing.* People talk about "lean management" and "trimming the fat" as if fat isn't there to save you during a famine.


DoreenFromReddit

Dude, this is the biggest thing that bugs me about my "lean" job. They act like it's this fucking brilliant idea, to hire the exact amount of ppl to get the work done. I just can't understand it. That only works if nobody takes PTO, ever, and no one is sick, ever, and no one ever has bereavement or necessary surgeries. It makes no sense to me. And your analogy is perfect. We have an appropriate amount of fat on our bodies to get us through famines. It isn't useless. Just staff like 1 or 2 extra depending on team size.


findinganonemos

Well it is fucking brilliant cause they get to run their lean shit show and the moment they are going to be put out or shit goes sideways they can just bully their lean paid employees to give up their lives and “be team players”. These mfs think we don’t know the game but we do.


PyroNine9

They play the same games with everything. The auto makers ran their logistics so lean they had to stop making new cars because of a series of snafus in chip manufacturing. Chips don't take up much space. The difference is they can't bully un-made chips into existence.


Remarkable_Pickle655

This comment is poetry, and I'll be borrowing your fat analogy. If I had an award to give, I'd give it to this


SRD1194

You're welcome to it, and your kind words are more than enough award for me.


Roqot

Or they can hire a temp


soaper410

Go to Spain. I can't imagine how much pressure you feel to stay and help but if anything in the last few years we've learned life is so short.


P3ngu1nR4ge

Fuck that. It is their job to cover not yours.


Pkactus

no, you ARE going to Spain. don't let them do this to your life. This is an issue for them, not an issue for you. to let them do this. is to allow them to own your life outside the job. that is slavery.


SouthernGuns

I always would tell ppl my vacation time is me telling you when I won't be there not me asking for permission to not be there.


zzfoe

You are going to Spain. Show them everything you paid for as proof.


itssarahw

>I ~~was~~ am going to Spain


BlueCatSW9

you're going, this is ridiculous


SnooEagles6930

Fuck em


heavyarms1248

Bro go to Spain, jobs come and go


taxpayinmeemaw

You *are* going to Spain 😬


_PinkFlower_

Dude go to spain. If it was just a normal vacation with no traveling involved I would get postponing it byt come on, not for a trip like this


This-Burning-Girl

If you already paid for your vacation, tell them it’s already paid for and nonrefundable, and you will not be coming into work unless they pay to compensate your trip. Plane tickets are not something you can get a refund on, and they are EXPENSIVE


Tranqup

And get the money before you reschedule your trip.


Nice-Violinist-6395

I don’t understand. Why doesn’t OP just literally say no. That’s all they have to say. What are they going to do? If they’re stretched thin enough to be this desperate, then they’re not in a well-leveraged position to fire you. Firing OP doesn’t solve their problem, it makes it a LOT worse. Just say no. Better yet, when you make vacation plans, do not ask for the time off. Inform them that you won’t be coming in on those dates, and refuse to entertain any admonition or guilt-tripping. You think the CEO or OP’s manager would reschedule their vacation to cover for OP? Pssh. You don’t owe a business that employs you anything. They are lucky to have you. Learn to say no.


grantrules

> Firing OP doesn’t solve their problem, it makes it a LOT worse. I just said this to a friend who got fired after she asked her boss when a good time would be to talk about scheduling some time off. Like.. clearly she could have just said yes to the time-off request.


toejamandtoast

Most employers don’t care if it fucks them by firing someone…. It’s the point of “he didn’t do what we said, so he isn’t going to work here.”


fgugddgbcdfyvddv

Most employers are dumber than a sack of rocks. They couldn't act in their own interest if it slapped them in the nuts


Xandril

Saving pennies by spending dimes can be used to describe most corporate behavior.


HaveMeOnURPodcast

It’s hilarious how this works in my company. Our dispatch was taken over by a computer to save money on routing but it sucks at actually putting things together that make sense. Because they’re hardline about following it shit is late more often and the stuff we carry is time sensitive to within a few minutes. It’s amazingly bad and there’s no way it saves them money.


wipedcamlob

They saying as ive heard it is "stepping over a nickle to pickup a penny"


smitty981

And I’ve heard it as “penny smart, dollar stupid”


tylanol7

I got fired for refusing to sign qn admission of guilt for things I didn't do lol. Bro don't be pulling me in your office and remaing for shit I didn't do them tossing a paper to sign I will 100% tell you to suck a dick


maxi_padz

Currently being constructively dismissed (I'm one of two longest serving employees in our location) for missing some days, two for a well communicated health issue and one for a funeral. I don't live in the US so this is super, mega illegal. Quietly taking notes during all of it and looking for something else that doesn't pay an absolutely DOGSHIT wage. It's rough out here but I'm gonna be the one petty enough to drag them through the courts lol


tylanol7

im not american either. debated tattling to the labour board but i keep forgetting and i am way happier being home so its like is it \*really\* worth spending my time to play legal back and forth bullshit possibly.


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Megasdoux

My previous job of 10 years boss was terrible under pressure, especially when you needed her to make a decision. So when I needed one day a week to be covered for three months when I was finishing up school, I made the plan for who to cover for me as well as if I didn't have class that day I could work and I copied the same plan that her boss did for me a few years earlier when she was my direct boss. All she had to say was "yes". But that was too much change for her so she rather I quit and deal with the short-staff and have to train new people.


AgeOfHades

Yikes that's bad, all the work was done for her and she still couldn't do it. How did she last that long as a boss


Megasdoux

There was a upper management culling that saw all the managers/supervisors who had the lowest budget/overhead stay and all the others get fired. I knew I was on my way out for a while, but it was sad to see the bare minimum become the company ethos.


Melissalynne7950

For real. They can hire a temp


Idontcareaforkarma

I was asked if I could cancel a booked and fully paid holiday, with approved leave. I said if they could reimburse any costs associated with transferring the dates of the holiday - up to and including full reimbursement if I couldn’t transfer or refund- pay out my accrued leave I was going to take, AND allow me to take the same amount of leave later on in the year, that I would immediately agree to cancel my holiday. It would’ve worked out to have been about $8000 they’d have had to pay, in cash, plus 4 weeks leave later in the year. It was considered, but rejected as ‘a little too much’. I was, however, thanked for considering it.


annul

perfect outcome for all involved imo.


shelballama

And comp whatever extra OP will have to spend now that airfare is much more expensive than it was even a few months ago. They'd at the very least need to comp me fully, pay the difference and add some extra on top as a "we fucked up, thank you for being so flexible" bonus. All of this should be in writing


klydsp

What a place to work if they'd do that for their employees.


ayyyyeeeeeeeeee

They won’t and Shelballama knows that. But that’s their requirement to cancel the vacation - which might as well be saying they are going on the vacation regardless


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SeriousAnteater

Also negotiate getting extra vacation days and a pay raise


upthemstairs

I had a holiday booked for 10 days. We ended up having a really good publicity generating event that my company needed me to attend. They just asked me to go the following week (didn't demand it) and then paid for the new flights for me (accommodation was free to change). This was 5 years ago and i still work there. Companies that look after their employees definitely feel the benefit of greater loyalty.


bebearaware

Fuck that, they need to hire cover.


knee-rlathotep

"You'll never believe this but that vacation is actually travel for a surgery *I* have scheduled!"


bebearaware

"and because our health insurance is garbage I'm having it done in Italy!" (guessing.)


nvwls300

Spain


Hawkwise83

Or just deal with being short staffed for a week. Shit happens.


lowkey_stoneyboy

No, they need to hire cover otherwise everyone else will have to pick up extra work they are not getting paid for and that is not fair.


timsterri

OP said it was a small, 4 person company. If two are out due to surgery and OP is on vacay, that leaves one poor shlub stuck with the work of four! They either need to set expectations for productivity in that timeframe with whoever their clientele is and/or they may want to consider hiring more people, even if only part time, to help ensure they won’t have jams like this.


mjace87

Shut the business down for a week.


timsterri

Definitely a plausible idea. Without having a clue what they even do as a business, it’s really hard to speculate what their best course of action is, but it’s not hard at all to see that they’re not prepared for a crisis. LOL


mjace87

I agree but if you have 3 out of 4 people not available it is time to start calling clients and managing expectations. Not leaning on the guy who is going to Spain.


SRD1194

So even if OP cancels their vacation, they're at 50% strength? Not all companies make it.


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everythingwas24

Seriously. No. Life is too short to not take planned vacations for someone who would drop you without giving it a second thought. They approved the time off. That’s that.


Prestigious-Rumfield

They never approved it on paper. They just acknowledged it two weeks ago.


LAJeepLife

They acknowledged it in the posted message. I'd say it's in writing.


everythingwas24

Was trying to figure out how to say this


VelvetHobo

Ah, so you seem to be working for real assholes. Encouraged you to take it, told you to go take it, and now have you thinking it didn't carry any weight because it wasn't in writing...... Any decent owner or manager with even a small sense of dignity would acknowledge the approval of your vacay - even if only given verbally.


Ausgezeichnet87

Can you imagine if OP made verbal promises, broke them and then told his boss that he should have got it in writing? Employees are held strictly to our word so employers should be as well.


IrocDewclaw

Figure out what the vacation would cost you, then double it. Thats the cost of canceling. Pay it or do without (hard stop). . . . . . Edit in cause it's taking off: my reasoning is, they need to "buy" your vacation then pay you to replace it at a later date. Adding 10% rescheduling fee is also acceptable. They'd do it to you if roles were reversed.


Ausgezeichnet87

Doesnt matter. If you verbally agreed to cover someone's shift would you feel entitled to change your mind like this just because it wasnt on paper? Hell no. These double standards where an employee is held to their word but employers are free to break their word is just bs and needs to end.


assortednerdery

Well, they acknowledge via this message that it was scheduled and previously approved, soooo.


mtimber1

Are they going to reimburse you for your "non-refundable travel expenses"? Because of not they can fuck right on off.


SirPhantomIII

It's not a time off request. It's you giving your work the courtesy of knowing you'll be going on vacation. Unless they intend to compensate you for your plans, do not cancel.


ktappe

Tell them you're willing to change your vaca if they cover your monetary losses for doing so. Make them pay for any lost airline tickets, hotel reservations, etc. I mean, unlike others here, I say work with them. The reasons for them asking you to change your vacation are not a whim; they are literally two surgeries. This is serious. Be malleable, but firm that they have to cover your losses.


jamiejames_atl

And include travel partners loss.


TheWriterJosh

Beat response on this thread.


fightwriter

to be real with you, this is why you ALWAYS get everything in writing.


[deleted]

The owners already acknowledge your time off with this email, they are saying that they WANT TO TALK, so you CAN TALK to them and say that you can postpone your already paid vacation if they pay UPFRONT the cost of said vacation. If they don't want to pay, well, have a nice trip *Edit. Grammar


cressian

This is honestly the most polite "manager email" ive seen on this sub


nothingdoing

Inflation has been mean, so they should be covering any additional expense incurred when repurchasing flights and accommodations, too.


MasterOutlaw

"Please when you get a chance lets discuss how this will go." "Uh, yeah. Here's now it'll go: I'm *going* on my vacation. I won't be there. It's your problem, you figure it out."


DeepFuckingBanana

Its a surgery vacation


Spherest

Seriously. What is he supposed to do as 1 person covering for 3 others any way??


Prestigious-Rumfield

A little background: My boss 'B' was already going in for his surgery and he fucked up by not giving me the date when he told me 'may is a great time to take a vacation'.. So now my other 50 something year old coworker ('L') needs surgery. Fuck. Like the tickets are already bought. We are a small 4 person company.


travellerfilms

Tell them they need to pay for the price of everything youre losing out on plus your regular wage before youll postpone your vacation Edit Just to clarify, you propose this because its highly unlikely they will go for it. Therefore they have to tell you no instead of making yourself the bad guy for not trying to offer an alternative. I had a job ask me to stay and work a double. I had a lesson scheduled to teach. They were willing to pay me 6 dollars more an hour to stay but not my regular rate plus the cost of my lesson which would have been about $75 more than if i had accepted the $6 an hour more for the shift.i wasnt the bad guy, they just couldnt afford to buy my time out at that point, especially since i told them I would be hurting my own image by cancelling on a client last minute. They werent willing to pay my price 💁‍♀️


hr0rrik

This. I wouldn't do shit until I had a check for what I'd spent on travel/hotel shit.


Enology_FIRE

Plus an honorarium reflecting my supreme flexibility as well as pain & suffering. Show me how much you value my team playing.


KIrkwillrule

This exactly. Want me to take the boss level.of responsibility because of things not related to me? Sure cover the money I'm already out, double that cause I'm saving your ass, and ensure i get my vacation time planned for as soon as that 6week recovery time is up. Don't wanna pay me like the boss you want me yo be? I'll be on vacation, don't call.


Dunkaknee

I learned a new word today thanks!


imnotyamum

Good point.


Beowulf33232

My dad got all his vacation when they tried to cancel a trip by bringing in my families plane tickets and asking them to pay him back for them.


Geminii27

Plus the entire potential cost of the vacation. If they're going to make demands of their staff like this, it should absolutely cost them significantly more than any other alternatives, like shutting the doors for a week or hiring a temp or two for that time. It's not the job of employees to carry the company. That's purely a management issue.


jenny_winer

you should also get paid more for covering two people


bikesexually

and I'd say that is the bare minimum that would be required. Frankly If I was OP I'd ask for all that and at least another week off for the vacay. If you are going all the way to Europe might as well explore as much as possible


Fantastic-Alps4335

Good thought. Get an extra week a year out of them.


molicare

Agreed. How much is it worth to them for you to stay? I know they’re is a labour shortage so it’s not like they can snap their fingers and hire someone tomorrow, so make them pay the price to keep you. They’ll need to: 1. Provide cash compensation for anything you’ve already paid, plus 50% of those costs for the inconvenience. 2. Double the paid time off you were going to take. Once you’ve gotten the cash in your bank account, then cancel. Don’t commit or change anything until you’ve been paid.


Branamp13

>I know they’re is a labour shortage so it’s not like they can snap their fingers and hire someone tomorrow Wrong. There is no labor shortage going on. If I go to the grocery store, grab a bag of Doritos priced $3.99 and then refuse to pay more than $2.99 for them at the register, I can't complain there's a "chip shortage" "Not like they can snap their fingers and hire someone tomorrow" - for the right wage/benefits, you sure as shit could. Businesses just want to cry that nobody will work for them instead of actually reflecting on how they're compensating their employees. It's crystal clear that this "labor shortage" is just workers who are tired of moving mountains for peanuts and would rather sit on their hands and be poor than work 40 hours to be marginally less poor. Want workers? Make the work you want them to do worth their fucking time.


Infinitesubset

This seems like a reasonable approach. If they need to mess with your plans they can compensate you in return, through extra pay, vacation time, whatever is appropriate given the situation.


Fantastic-Alps4335

And double time for that week since you will be doing more than one persons job.


Personal_Regular_569

🥇


EnigmaGuy

Honestly, not sure a small company could give a good enough counter offer for me to cancel a vacation I’ve had planned, given notice for and been approved to take. When I refuse to cancel it what - you’re going to fire me? Sounds like you’re already short staffed so I doubt you’ll want to make the situation worse. Sounds like the company will be closed for however long your vacation is ;)


Curias_1

Years ago my spouse booked his vacation and we rented a cottage. On the way out his boss called and told him he couldn’t have the time off as they had forgotten to schedule in in their records. We never forgot how we had to choke down the lost damage deposit and missed our vacation.


thorns17

Oof. If they blatantly admitted that they forgot to schedule it, that’s on them. I wish y’all still would’ve gone


mimir_daath

Unless you are a partner and your pay is a percentage of the profits; it's not your problem. Don't try to rationalize that it is. Yes shit happens, but you don't have to shovel it.


Unfair_Echo6073

My dad is a business owner and has drilled this into my head every time I put the company I work for ahead of my own needs. “You do not own this company… if they have to shutdown if you aren’t there, you aren’t getting paid enough.”


BananafestDestiny

> “… if they have to shutdown if you aren’t there, you aren’t getting paid enough.” That is such a great way of looking at it, I love this.


DelightfulAbsurdity

Thank you for sharing these words. I need to remember this when I feel like I “can’t” call out or schedule PTO.


MewsikMaker

I like this more than I like my own comment. You’re on vacation, not ‘you’ issue.


Disappointed-hyena

4 person company? Unless it’s the fantastic four they can shut down for a week if they don’t have the employees to operate


sausagesizzle

The nation will grind to a halt if they do that!


BigRiverHome

Tickets are bought. Unless and until you get payment in advance, take your vacation. They may not have approved it in writing, but they told you it is a good time. Sucks to be them.


TomFromCupertino

Small companies close the office all the time for unforeseen circumstances. This is one of those. It's part of being a small company. Like the other guy said, unless you have an ownership stake in the company, this simply isn't your problem.


teresajs

"Since you had encouraged me to take vacation in May, I made plans based on that. Unfortunately, those plans include $X in non-refundable airline tickets (and $Y in any other monetary losses). Company will need to agree to reimburse me in full for these out-of-pocket expenses for me to change my plans. Otherwise, I will be away Dates as planned."


Jovet_Hunter

“Well, I didn’t want to say anything but I am having surgery, too. I just don’t like sharing medical info.” 🤷‍♀️


meowmeow_now

Companies this small have the discretion to bend the rules. I would ask that they pay you the cost you already spent on airfare hotels (full price, no partial refund) AND ask for a bonus to make up for the inconvenience of rescheduling (I’d start with the total cost of a new trip). Their response will tell you how self aware they are. If they agree or even negotiate some of these demands they are, in my opinion trying to make it right. If they balk, just tell them the trip is non refundable and your going.


Hawkwise83

Sounds like they can pay you for the inconvenience or they can suffer the loss and close for a week.


jack121013

Higher pay. Cover your entire vacations cost. Add something on top. Anything less and you are getting fucked.


awfullotofocelots

Don't budge. You hold more cards here than you realize. Your boss doesn't have anyone to replace you with and obviously relies on you a ton. They don't want to train a brand new person quickly and haphazardly just to cover their business in a month so your really not at risk of losing your job. Worst that will happen is that the business will be short staffed or even (gasp!) closed for a week. Remember, your boss was already planning this specific week would be a slow business week for a while now. Probably when they were making a yearly business plan in December. Thats why he pitched it to you as an ideal time for you to take off.


Conscious_stardust

I would have them pay for the vacation since they are asking you to cancel after having already accepted vacation request. If not, the onus should be on them to find temp replacement.


Deb_Tradeideas

Tell them you can do it only if they reimburse the cancellation.


KahlanEAmnelle

Tickets are bought, time was approved. Sorry not sorry, you're going on vacation. Thats BS.


Threash78

Your tickets are already bought, nothing else is your problem.


ThePowerOfShadows

That is not your problem, regardless of the size of the company.


nnniiikkkkkkiii

If you don’t go on this vacation I will be absolutely livid.


kerfandrosSr

Me too


ccoriell

I will riot in the fucking streets.


Harry_Buttock

#You don't even want to know where this remote control is gonna go if that happens


jdvhunt

This is the first post I've seen on this sub where I've actually thought that maybe some cooperation would be merited on both sides, surgery is just fucked and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. However, they should offer you reimbursement of your tickets because they said May was a good time to go on holiday but if it were me personally (keep in mind I'm Australian so work conditions aren't terrible here but they're definitely trending in the same direction) I would try and reschedule if they were open to reimbursing me the tickets.


ZatchZeta

Tell the 4 person company to go hiatus.


[deleted]

This is actually the better answer. Can't really get mad at people needing surgery and sometimes it gets scheduled whenever the hospital has an opening - which means you can't get mad at the coworker for opting for the surgery - they are putting their needs first just like vacationer wants to do. It creates a dilemma. Given how small the company is and how hard it would be for one person to be the sole fill-in person, closing down for a period is the most equitable solution.


poisonettle

Seriously, is it that absurd of an idea to just… not be open for a couple of days? My favorite Thai restaurant used to close for a week around Christmas/New Years because the owners would go to Thailand. I thought it was great and was more than happy to support them when they got back. If a store only has four employees it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for them to post a sign on their door stating that they need to be temporarily closed for the well being of their employees.


Bones1973

My local coffee shop closes for an entire month every August so they can go back to their home country. They hire renovators to come in and fix stuff or upgrade equipment. When they come back, business comes right back because they're that good.


DarthBB08

Unlike most people I think it’s normal to chip in for times like this. But definitely need to pay any cancelation fees + roll extra Holliday time over to the next year if need be. It does not actually cost them that much. And people will cover for you when you need it. But definitely not if your out of pocket.


ant_honey6

Anti work is full of people who have been burned for years by giant corps. I think this case is not like the others. I would really like to know what they're offering in return for op canceling their trip. . . Might be substantial.


Particular_Cold_8366

Sucks to be them. Enjoy your vacation.


NimueArt

This is a negotiation. Be compassionate, you are a team player and obviously have co-workers with significant health issues. Also, this is one of the best reasons to have to ask someone to change their plans that I have seen, tbh. I would tell them that you want to support your team, but cancelling or rescheduling your vacation will cost money that you aren’t prepared to pay. If they are willing to pay for any losses to you then you have a good boss and I would stay. Otherwise- polish your resume.


mamaxchaos

“Boss, I sincerely hope your surgery goes smoothly, and that Coworker can access the support she needs during her procedure. Unfortunately, I cannot reschedule my vacation. I am happy to assist before my departure in providing training to a temporary replacement, or otherwise support the team ahead of time. I have made commitments to these dates, which I submitted in advance. If there are any tasks I can prepare to make my absence easier on the team, please let me know. I will be available to assist between X am to X pm all business days from now until (Departure Date). I understand your concerns about staffing coverage and will do my best to assist before my departure. Feel free to schedule a time for us to discuss more within the next week and I’ll be happy to collaborate on potential solutions. Best, OP Name” That’s all you have to do, and even that is going beyond what you’re REQUIRED to do. **DO NOT RESCHEDULE YOUR VACATION. This is way, way bigger than you and this company. What if you have to give birth or have a relative die or have a serious medical issue and those coworkers are on vacation? Would your boss reschedule his vacation to cover for your medical needs?** No. The answer is no. Let us know how Spain is!