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talaraa

I completely agree with this but I never really thought about it the way you put it. I have many times had the thought that I wish BioWare gave more love to some of the characters they created and while my favorite romance is much more well fleshed out than say Jack or Samara, it’s still no Tali, Liara, or Garrus. I think the problems the creators hit is that then everyone complains that they can’t romance x,y,and z. No one is ever 100% happy.


linkenski

Yeah, and sadly that's why I think starting with Anthem we've seen BioWare kinda run away from it. I also think even during ME Trilogy there were some designers who didn't wanna blow out all the romance options like they did. It was because a bunch of passionate people (Patrick Weekes) really wanted it, that they developed it outside of initial planning. But now it's become so popular that fans expect more and more, but also more recognition of different genders sexualities and things that BioWare couldn't have predicted back in 2007 that would become so normalized, and in some cases it's as simple as flipping a switch and recording the same lines for all player-voice-actors. In other cases there's demand for actual exclusivity to gay players, or lesbian players, or even ace players. This is not a problem ideally speaking, but it does suddenly inflate what can be done production-wise versus strictly hetero/bisexual for Male or Female protagonist. If you just unlock everyone to all players like in DA2, people will complain that gay people don't exist in the universe and so on. If they were bold enough to say "Only Gay/Bi" then obviously hetero fans will say "boo" so they've really opened the can of worms here. That's why I hope ME4 kinda sticks to like... just ME1's composition of romance options. There's one "main" romance for either gender and one that is shared no matter what character you create. ME1 only had about 10 million in budget whereas the other 3 have had 40 million. With things reeled in a bit, I think they could create a stronger confluence between the plot of the game, and the emotional, personal relationship with the friends you make during the adventure, or lovers. That's been what I really wanted since this whole Romanceathon started. I really want a "Shepard" esque protagonist where there's one character that I'm exclusively romanced to, but you can feel the entire game reflect whether they're in a relationship or not. Maybe moments where you must choose between the love of your life or the fate of those around you. I always felt like romances were too relegated to just "not plot" stuff. It's why Solas was so famous in DA:I, because it ties into the core of the main plot, to be romancing him and see him do the things he does within the central plot. It's why I honestly like Thane. You know he's a dying man, and it's quite an evocative scene when he dies, and must mean something special to FemShep, but they didn't go far enough with that.


talaraa

I think we can all agree that BioWare has their work cut out for them releasing this new Mass Effect. The fanbase is stronger and now even bigger than it was before with LE coming out and there’s a lot of unanswered things that need to be dealt with.


linkenski

I don't know that the fanbase is stronger and bigger, but yeah LE did sell a lot. But I know there are many who also simply dropped off originally because of the whole ME3 ending fiasco, and then Andromeda. It remains to be seen how attractive the franchise is. I mean... it's also a bit hard to argue since gaming simply is bigger than ever nowadays. It doesn't scale directly, but back with the ME2 days the game sold really well, and sold even more throughout the year. They wanted the same success for 3 and the initial sales were higher, but with the ending controversy and everything it started dwindling faster than ME2 did, and I always took that as a sign that many fans felt burned on the game, and word of mouth was much less positive. But yeah, they definitely have their work cut out.


Wellofdoog

I remember when ME2 was current. A couple of my friends and I were joking that if BioWare just released “go on a date” dlcs for each LI they would make a fortune. I would unironically buy every one of them.


CanoGori

I‘m doing a femshep run right now and would have loved to see how a femshepXAshley romance dynamic would play out.


ShadeWolf7

Ashley is straight, sorry to break it to you. Changing a character to fit how you want isn't how these things work.


CanoGori

Yeah I know. Still I would have loved to see it though. I‘m playing a soldier Femshep and thought that it would be badass.


cyndina

Yeah, and they are saying that they wished the writers, who had full control over the situation, had used the content they already had written and voice acted that portrayed this \*fictional\* character as bi. Instead of caving to homophobes.


WangJian221

Look i get your point and i kinda agree but you didnt have to put it that way.


bleulemons

Oh ye 4sho. On one hand, the lack of on-screen content deters me from deviating from a romance that has more while on the other hand, bouncing between romances throughout the trilogy gives the romance front a very shallow feel personally. The lack of romance options (moreso for femshep) that spans across the trilogy is also disheartening. I get that ME isn't at its core a dating simulator and content is probably better left for the plot than add-ons like romance but I'll always lament the lack of depth for some of the romances. I've tried various approaches to the romance but it still requires a lot of HC to smooth out the edges where the game doesn't qt match up. At best, there are fics. At worst, I stick to my canon romance.


linkenski

I think FemShep's main issue is that in 2 her "main" romance was Jacob, and Jacob is no Miranda lmao. I think they got Thane and Garrus thought. Those are both really good romances. In 3 you have Kaidan, and Garrus, and actually... Yeah. I can see how in 3 it kinda thins out for Femsheps. I think Thane has some really good dialogue early on but he obviously dies.


bleulemons

I almost always have my femshep aim for the long game romance-wise, which leaves her w pm kaidan/garrus/liara. The breadth and depth of each romance is also questionable but eh most games don't even hit the ballpark like ME does so I can't really complain much. Just wished there was a tad more


akuyuukai

It's not a secret that some romances, if not all of them, were pretty bland and under-developed. I think you're not alone there. I'd have liked more scenes for my preferred romances, of course. I'd also have LOVED to see more same gender couples in the game that don't fall under very homophobic tropes, but alas... I can only dream.


Bacallisms

Totally agree.


cyndina

It would have been nice if they all got the Liara treatment. VS comes a close second there, but the writers had favorites and they weren't very good at hiding it.


kayl_the_red

I was happy with Liara (I still headcannon that she gets pregnant right before the final run on Earth when you embrace eternity again) and you covered Jack.


Sanunes

I think the problem is there is only so much time they can spend on romances so it becomes a quality versus quantity when it comes to the romances. The only way I can see it going is that if BioWare only has a couple of romances in the games and makes them deeper or have a large quantity of romances to pick from and there are not as deep. My choice would be a more deeper and quality romance then having 12 or more romance options in the games, but going by the direction BioWare has been heading in I don't see that happening. I even wouldn't mind to have something like Mass Effect 2 when you can call your romantic interest to your cabin and spend time together without any need for scripting or dialogue.


WangJian221

The only thing i wished for is for the other romance characters to get as much work put into them in me3 the same way what liara got regardless if they can die in the previous games. I dont even mind the lack of an actual sex cutscene but just more involvement wouldve been nice


SwinubIsDivinub

I also wish you could not be super lonely in ME3 after romancing Thane in ME2


linkenski

I think someone in the party should come over to you like "My condolences. I know you must be grieving. Actually... *I've always been in love with you :D"* And it'd be hella wrong.


SleepNative

I mean I’m satisfied with amount of romances. I agree that there should’ve been more screen time romance. Or have your romance from ME2 join the crew on ME3. I do feel if we have too many romances that’d we be side tracked. Or could over tax the story by trying to shove a lot into it. So so think the choice to have them across the games was a good choice. I think what I would change is have a perk or skill be achieved when you romance a character. Like if you romance a biotic character you’d get a new power, or a tech character you’d get a new item or schematic.