May not help, but our mom took an ambulance trip to piedmont about 2 weeks ago and after her insurance it ended up around 550, for approximately a 6 mile trip.
Similar story here, but with a bike accident in Jackson county. It was roughly a 6 mile ride to Piedmont and Jackson EMS billed BCBS for \~$500--much less than I was expecting. Insurance covered it all because by the time all the billing was sorted for that accident, I'd reached my out of pocket max. I think I would have crawled with my good limbs to Jackson and then called the ambulance because I've heard how much National costs...good luck OP!
Apparently, they're getting a great deal of government money from both ACC and Oconee Counties but there isn't any local oversight of National EMS anymore. This might be something to pass along to your elected officials - especially if there is no insurance company that covers them anymore as is commented earlier.
[https://athenspoliticsnerd.com/for-profit-ems-no-longer-subject-to-oversight-in-athens-and-oconee/](https://athenspoliticsnerd.com/for-profit-ems-no-longer-subject-to-oversight-in-athens-and-oconee/)
I can remember a time in this town when building height was measured in pickup trucks…..
I’m happy to report that Clarke County subsidizes National to the tune of two squiggly blue art installations per year.
I know your squiggle remark was flippant, but it underscores irresponsible spending on SPLOST. I’d much rather use our sales tax to create a 3rd service EMS department than put up art that will only be defaced and expensive outdoor toilets.
I would too. Unfortunately, we won’t get that chance with SPLOST until 2032! If it’s going to happen at all, we will need a SPLOST advisory committee (or mayor) that is willing to prioritize these kinds of investments.
Each county gives them 100k and each of the hospitals give them 100k. Either way, 400k is Pennies for An ambulance company. A county service would cost millions, because they wouldn’t recoup their costs from non emergency transports.
Sure, 400k is a tiny piece of their pie. But if we’re subsidizing it, we should have some oversight. It seems pretty clear that there are significant problems in terms of response times and patient costs with a company that’s breaking all ties with insurers.
The county level expense has already been incurred for years in Clarke, as FES responds to all EMS calls (and has for several years) due to poor response times from National.
Partially true. The only additional expense is vehicle fuel, maintenance, training and very basic medical supplies.
County employees are trained to the EMT level, and their med bags aren’t even stocked with all the meds/equipment that is in their scope, let alone what would be in the scope of a paramedic.
That I don’t know. I just remembered that I read something about it a year or two ago and googled for an article. Chris’s was the first that popped up. But it does sound like something we should be asking our government about if folks are getting bills for 3 grand.
No, they have not met since then. On the public side of the committee, anyway. Commissioners who were supposed to be serving on the committee report hearing nothing at all from the hospitals on this.
The hospitals are still reviewing National EMS's performance internally in some way shape or form, I'd imagine. But after being told that oversight committee meetings were subject to Georgia open meetings laws, they stopped having them and aren't going to start again ever. They're pretty keen to avoid transparency on this.
Whomever. I still blame our local government. Pending contract expiration, they could choose to use another company or choose to enlist ACCFD to takeover all EMS calls - like most cities of our size or larger. Any lack of transparency at that point would allow us, as the citizens that would be supported, to vote out those who cause the opaqueness.
Edit: and before we get on the topic of "well who is gonna pay for that"? The answer is simple. John Q. Taxpayer. A lot of cities who fund their own ambulatory/EMS services consider that a utility and charge their citizens a monthly utility fee. While this sounds like a big deal, it's not. Most float around $10-15/mo. Is $10-15/mo worth getting *timely* EMS service? Is $10-15/mo worth *not* getting ripped off by privatized EMS services who won't deal with insurers? You're damn right it is.
Blame whoever you want, but the government was the one pushing for transparency in this case. And no, they don't have control over the contract and can't just choose another company. They do have the option to expand the Fire Department's services.
They don’t control the EMS license, the hospitals do. The hospitals used to run the ambulances, but they deemed it was either not profitable, or not profitable enough for the headache. Interestingly, piedmont runs ambulances in other places, so does Grady, and Northside.
I may misremember some details, but my wife had a minor accident about a year ago which resulted in a broken bone. EMS was called, I'm quite certain it was National. She was taken from downtown to Piedmont.
Several months later...like, nearly forgotten about the ambulance, we received a bill from them in that same range you mentioned, $3000. After some back and forth, it was determined that National was not in my wife's insurance network. Which is just, utterly ridiculous.
We appealed with insurance, nothing doing. Finally settled on a payment of $1,300 with National if we paid in full. $1,300 to go from downtown to Piedmont. What in the world.
>Less and less providers are taking insurance at all.
Medicare here, on an Advantage plan. Any ambulance, including a helicopter, will cost me less than $200.
I kinda want to go up in the mountains and break a leg because I've never ridden in a helicopter.
I don't disagree, but I've personally never qualified for Medicare - and the ACA plan that I had through the marketplace last year just tripled in price this year.
So it kinda feels like you're just gloating.
In general, Medicare is available for those 65 and up. (You might be thinking of Medicaid.) The person isn’t gloating, just stating the true ridiculousness of the system.
Nah, just trying to show the inequity. ACA is a shitty compromise, and our government should do better. But there's money in it, so it will never happen. Listen to today's NYT podcast about not-for-profit hospitals to see how we are getting screwed.
Insert obligatory comment about how our healthcare system needs a lot of work because people are faced with the decision to go into poverty or be sick and potentially die.
A very relevant news story. As in, that story explains exactly what happened to OP.
“With EMS not considered an essential service in Georgia, it's up to consumers to decide what company they want to do business with. The problem is, in an emergency, nobody has that choice.”
This shit is horrible.
Interesting that National EMS so boldly lied to that reporter with “we do not receive taxpayer dollars”, claiming they’re solely funded by patients, insurers and Medicare/Medicaid.
Both ACCGOV and Oconee County Gov are subsidizing them to the tune of 200k a year.
This is EXACTLY the situation. Our ambulance trip was in November. We did not know about this change, not that it would have mattered, I guess. We needed the ambulance. The talking points National EMS uses in the article above to justify their non-acceptance of insurance are repeated almost verbatim in the letter they sent.
I used to negotiate medical bills for my job. On EMS stuff (which as we all know is astronomically overpriced) I would always try and negotiate by stating:
“We have this much money to cover the bill, and that is all we have. We are happy to pay this amount, but nothing more. If you would please accept such and such amount as full and final payment, we would greatly appreciate it.”
Worth a shot. They’re used to not being paid, and if it drags out long enough, they’re more willing to take a cut just to receive some type of payment.
If they bill balance they can turn that down from what I understand. Currently in an extremely similar incident with national EMS. BCBS tried to pay them 600$ and asked for 2100 to be waived (approx). National responded by saying...nah. i am still figuring it out and am trying to see whether the hit to credit is the end of the world, or if I can bring it down to 1300 as that was the cost had I not been insured. Obviously that's a price they are willing to accept
Good luck to you! I’ll try to post an update if we make any headway on a settlement with them for a lower price. Where did you see that $1300 figure for the uninsured, if I may ask?
Originally didn't provide insurance when I was picked up. They said if you don't have insurance and pay it off or set up a payment plan within 2 weeks of the first bill that they can reduce by half. I have it in writing somewhere I'm aiming for that number cause I'd bet it's more than they would get by letting it go to collections.
I mentioned this to our HR department the other day (a fairly large employer using BCBS) and they acted like they had no idea. HTF does and HR department not know the only ambulance provider in town has gone out of network?
Hard agree. I feel like this information was not widely communicated. People should definitely know that EMS is out of network for what I am guessing is the biggest insurer around. What gets me, too, is that, in our case, it’s the STATE insurance plan. The state insurance plan has NO in-network EMS in my parents’ area. It boggles the mind.
Back in 2012, the year I left my EMS “career,” being transported by ambulance carried a base price of $500. Then, it was $9 per mile of the transport. The county over from us had a completely different billing system, where the basically itemized the supplies used during the transport, on top of having a per mile fee.
You are in a legally sanctioned fucked up situation. They teach students everyday at UGA how to write policies for lawmakers and for companies to work around the people who pay for them. Our elected officials are idealistic and charismatic enough to garner power but are too weak or flexible in negotiating terms to achieve equal care for all of its citizens. The fact is they have chosen the “right” places to spend money for the people that they believe will be most affected. For the few thousand who get fucked in an emergency situation, you aren’t going to be able to vote your way out of this situation. The “greater good” is beyond your position to the extent that your debt or uncomfortable situation doesn’t matter to the people who make decisions. Think about this medical bill negotiator position. There is such absolute fuckery in the government sanctioned system of health care that an industry was created to negotiate down medical costs AFTER THE FACT. Send them $5 a week until they ask “How much can you pay?” Start at $0.20 on the dollar, that’s more than a debt collector will buy the debt for. When they refuse keep sending your $5 a week.
May not help, but our mom took an ambulance trip to piedmont about 2 weeks ago and after her insurance it ended up around 550, for approximately a 6 mile trip.
Thanks! It does.
Similar story here, but with a bike accident in Jackson county. It was roughly a 6 mile ride to Piedmont and Jackson EMS billed BCBS for \~$500--much less than I was expecting. Insurance covered it all because by the time all the billing was sorted for that accident, I'd reached my out of pocket max. I think I would have crawled with my good limbs to Jackson and then called the ambulance because I've heard how much National costs...good luck OP!
It's crazy we have to be particular about our ambulance service in an emergency...
Apparently, they're getting a great deal of government money from both ACC and Oconee Counties but there isn't any local oversight of National EMS anymore. This might be something to pass along to your elected officials - especially if there is no insurance company that covers them anymore as is commented earlier. [https://athenspoliticsnerd.com/for-profit-ems-no-longer-subject-to-oversight-in-athens-and-oconee/](https://athenspoliticsnerd.com/for-profit-ems-no-longer-subject-to-oversight-in-athens-and-oconee/)
I can remember a time in this town when building height was measured in pickup trucks….. I’m happy to report that Clarke County subsidizes National to the tune of two squiggly blue art installations per year.
I know your squiggle remark was flippant, but it underscores irresponsible spending on SPLOST. I’d much rather use our sales tax to create a 3rd service EMS department than put up art that will only be defaced and expensive outdoor toilets.
I would too. Unfortunately, we won’t get that chance with SPLOST until 2032! If it’s going to happen at all, we will need a SPLOST advisory committee (or mayor) that is willing to prioritize these kinds of investments.
Good thing I can walk to both hospitals because I don’t have a city council rep to complain to…
Each county gives them 100k and each of the hospitals give them 100k. Either way, 400k is Pennies for An ambulance company. A county service would cost millions, because they wouldn’t recoup their costs from non emergency transports.
Sure, 400k is a tiny piece of their pie. But if we’re subsidizing it, we should have some oversight. It seems pretty clear that there are significant problems in terms of response times and patient costs with a company that’s breaking all ties with insurers.
The county level expense has already been incurred for years in Clarke, as FES responds to all EMS calls (and has for several years) due to poor response times from National.
Partially true. The only additional expense is vehicle fuel, maintenance, training and very basic medical supplies. County employees are trained to the EMT level, and their med bags aren’t even stocked with all the meds/equipment that is in their scope, let alone what would be in the scope of a paramedic.
Holy Crap! Has there been any update? Has the oversight committee met since the time of this article? That is insane.
That I don’t know. I just remembered that I read something about it a year or two ago and googled for an article. Chris’s was the first that popped up. But it does sound like something we should be asking our government about if folks are getting bills for 3 grand.
No, they have not met since then. On the public side of the committee, anyway. Commissioners who were supposed to be serving on the committee report hearing nothing at all from the hospitals on this. The hospitals are still reviewing National EMS's performance internally in some way shape or form, I'd imagine. But after being told that oversight committee meetings were subject to Georgia open meetings laws, they stopped having them and aren't going to start again ever. They're pretty keen to avoid transparency on this.
>They're pretty keen to avoid transparency on this. That is never good. Government corruption at its finest.
It's not government corruption, it's private sector corruption. The government is the one trying to provide transparency.
Whomever. I still blame our local government. Pending contract expiration, they could choose to use another company or choose to enlist ACCFD to takeover all EMS calls - like most cities of our size or larger. Any lack of transparency at that point would allow us, as the citizens that would be supported, to vote out those who cause the opaqueness. Edit: and before we get on the topic of "well who is gonna pay for that"? The answer is simple. John Q. Taxpayer. A lot of cities who fund their own ambulatory/EMS services consider that a utility and charge their citizens a monthly utility fee. While this sounds like a big deal, it's not. Most float around $10-15/mo. Is $10-15/mo worth getting *timely* EMS service? Is $10-15/mo worth *not* getting ripped off by privatized EMS services who won't deal with insurers? You're damn right it is.
Blame whoever you want, but the government was the one pushing for transparency in this case. And no, they don't have control over the contract and can't just choose another company. They do have the option to expand the Fire Department's services.
How do they not have control over the contract? Aren’t they who agreed to the contract?
They don’t control the EMS license, the hospitals do. The hospitals used to run the ambulances, but they deemed it was either not profitable, or not profitable enough for the headache. Interestingly, piedmont runs ambulances in other places, so does Grady, and Northside.
That makes this situation even more ridiculous. 😢
I may misremember some details, but my wife had a minor accident about a year ago which resulted in a broken bone. EMS was called, I'm quite certain it was National. She was taken from downtown to Piedmont. Several months later...like, nearly forgotten about the ambulance, we received a bill from them in that same range you mentioned, $3000. After some back and forth, it was determined that National was not in my wife's insurance network. Which is just, utterly ridiculous. We appealed with insurance, nothing doing. Finally settled on a payment of $1,300 with National if we paid in full. $1,300 to go from downtown to Piedmont. What in the world.
Less and less providers are taking insurance at all. Sometimes, you don't have a choice as to whether you see these providers. The system is broken.
>Less and less providers are taking insurance at all. Medicare here, on an Advantage plan. Any ambulance, including a helicopter, will cost me less than $200. I kinda want to go up in the mountains and break a leg because I've never ridden in a helicopter.
Weird flex, but ok
My point was that it can be done by insurers, if the government sets standards. Just another point towards national health care
I don't disagree, but I've personally never qualified for Medicare - and the ACA plan that I had through the marketplace last year just tripled in price this year. So it kinda feels like you're just gloating.
In general, Medicare is available for those 65 and up. (You might be thinking of Medicaid.) The person isn’t gloating, just stating the true ridiculousness of the system.
Medicare is the one for retirees…
Can confirm. Source: am old, possibly boomer.
Nah, just trying to show the inequity. ACA is a shitty compromise, and our government should do better. But there's money in it, so it will never happen. Listen to today's NYT podcast about not-for-profit hospitals to see how we are getting screwed.
>Listen to today's NYT podcast ... Mom?
Thanks! Great to know what others are paying. It helps us at least have some idea what we might be able to get them down to.
Sure thing, best of luck and hoping your dad recovers!
Would probably start with checking what your BCBS covers for ambulance services and ask National EMS for an itemized invoice/bill
Already asked for an itemized invoice. Good suggestion.
Insert obligatory comment about how our healthcare system needs a lot of work because people are faced with the decision to go into poverty or be sick and potentially die.
[A possibly relevant local news story](https://www.11alive.com/article/money/consumer/anthem-blue-cross-blue-shield-national-ambulance-ems-family-bill/85-67ceeab0-4f47-4b87-bdf2-b081e6ada9c0)
A very relevant news story. As in, that story explains exactly what happened to OP. “With EMS not considered an essential service in Georgia, it's up to consumers to decide what company they want to do business with. The problem is, in an emergency, nobody has that choice.” This shit is horrible.
Why is EMS not essential in GA?
Because rural counties with VFDs can’t/won’t pay for it and also because the private providers have managed to lock their position in via lobbying.
Interesting that National EMS so boldly lied to that reporter with “we do not receive taxpayer dollars”, claiming they’re solely funded by patients, insurers and Medicare/Medicaid. Both ACCGOV and Oconee County Gov are subsidizing them to the tune of 200k a year.
I believe it is the hospitals that get that money
This is EXACTLY the situation. Our ambulance trip was in November. We did not know about this change, not that it would have mattered, I guess. We needed the ambulance. The talking points National EMS uses in the article above to justify their non-acceptance of insurance are repeated almost verbatim in the letter they sent.
I used to negotiate medical bills for my job. On EMS stuff (which as we all know is astronomically overpriced) I would always try and negotiate by stating: “We have this much money to cover the bill, and that is all we have. We are happy to pay this amount, but nothing more. If you would please accept such and such amount as full and final payment, we would greatly appreciate it.” Worth a shot. They’re used to not being paid, and if it drags out long enough, they’re more willing to take a cut just to receive some type of payment.
Thank you very much. This is very helpful. Much appreciated.
[удалено]
Thanks. I didn’t know about this. Will look into it.
they may have cut the check for $600 to pay the negotiated amount.
If they bill balance they can turn that down from what I understand. Currently in an extremely similar incident with national EMS. BCBS tried to pay them 600$ and asked for 2100 to be waived (approx). National responded by saying...nah. i am still figuring it out and am trying to see whether the hit to credit is the end of the world, or if I can bring it down to 1300 as that was the cost had I not been insured. Obviously that's a price they are willing to accept
Good luck to you! I’ll try to post an update if we make any headway on a settlement with them for a lower price. Where did you see that $1300 figure for the uninsured, if I may ask?
Originally didn't provide insurance when I was picked up. They said if you don't have insurance and pay it off or set up a payment plan within 2 weeks of the first bill that they can reduce by half. I have it in writing somewhere I'm aiming for that number cause I'd bet it's more than they would get by letting it go to collections.
I mentioned this to our HR department the other day (a fairly large employer using BCBS) and they acted like they had no idea. HTF does and HR department not know the only ambulance provider in town has gone out of network?
Hard agree. I feel like this information was not widely communicated. People should definitely know that EMS is out of network for what I am guessing is the biggest insurer around. What gets me, too, is that, in our case, it’s the STATE insurance plan. The state insurance plan has NO in-network EMS in my parents’ area. It boggles the mind.
Back in 2012, the year I left my EMS “career,” being transported by ambulance carried a base price of $500. Then, it was $9 per mile of the transport. The county over from us had a completely different billing system, where the basically itemized the supplies used during the transport, on top of having a per mile fee.
Try asking r/healthcare idk how to tag it. ETA - ah. Well that’s how. By writing it.
You are in a legally sanctioned fucked up situation. They teach students everyday at UGA how to write policies for lawmakers and for companies to work around the people who pay for them. Our elected officials are idealistic and charismatic enough to garner power but are too weak or flexible in negotiating terms to achieve equal care for all of its citizens. The fact is they have chosen the “right” places to spend money for the people that they believe will be most affected. For the few thousand who get fucked in an emergency situation, you aren’t going to be able to vote your way out of this situation. The “greater good” is beyond your position to the extent that your debt or uncomfortable situation doesn’t matter to the people who make decisions. Think about this medical bill negotiator position. There is such absolute fuckery in the government sanctioned system of health care that an industry was created to negotiate down medical costs AFTER THE FACT. Send them $5 a week until they ask “How much can you pay?” Start at $0.20 on the dollar, that’s more than a debt collector will buy the debt for. When they refuse keep sending your $5 a week.
That sounds about right for an ambulance trip.
Ask for an itemized invoice.