I love Nintendo but it’s hilarious to me that someone would even try to compare performance fidelity of a Switch game to any PS5 title let alone an exclusive (that probably has first party support because Sony knows this game is going to be a huge product for them).
I think the showcase from yesterday even included pop in at some point. So I am not sure what's wrong with a shimmy. Either way I am pretty sure both games will be great.
Not to mention that the distance between the ground and sky islands in TotK is seemingly very, very large. Plenty of time to load the new location and wipe the previous from memory.
I'm pretty sure Yoshi-P confirmed recently (either during the Media Tour or the PAX East panel) that Sony did assist on certain parts of the game like optimization for the PS5.
Also, yeah, right there with you. But this is Twitter & Zelda's one of the biggest first-party Nintendo games there is. So lots of Console War tribalism is to be expected.
Honestly, I think people only see shimmies as a means to disguise loading, not taking into account other reasons they might be there like prevent needless backtracking or boxing you in during combat for performance and/or design reasons. This same discussion happened when GOW: Ragnarok came out & plenty of devs came forward and explained the uses for the shimmies when that happened.
Agreed, their last good system that could actually compete with Microsoft and Sony was the Gamecube.....after that, they decided to go with 100% kiddie games
this remind me that on twitter there is article from Kotaku that want to argue devs claim about transition speed so the author compare FFXVI with Super Mario 64 claim that that game already done smooth transition from cutscene to gameplay. that guy seriously want to compare nintendo 64 game with 54mb size with FFXVI that the texture load alone could take GBs of size?
i see similliar situation with Rachet & Clank where there is someone claim that the portal mechanic is possible without the fast ssd and he use a 700mb iphone tech demo as example lol.
I said this constantly when next gen consoles were being bragged on for the lack of “shimmy loading” as a feature because the tech was so fast it wasn’t needed. It’s just not true. While it’s true that they aren’t needed to hide loading screens technically they’ll still be used as a narrative device.
I mean, it can be a big deal if a next gen game has Pokemon Scarlet Violet or Sonic 06 level of loading screens, for example. In case of FFXVI is defenetly not a big problem, if none.
This shimmy thing has been blown out of proportion and has shown how gamers have become annoyingly spoiled. And spoiled by what I have no idea, because XVI to be so shat upon when it's actually really fast is crazy.
It was a big deal to me in like he ps1 era. Get up to take a shit while tomb raider loads, etc. But it hasn't been NA issue for anyone over the age of 12 in multiple generations.
If BotW is anything to go by, the game will take a minute or so to load before you can play.
GOTY talks are starting and some people are going to throw shit at the "competition" becouse their life is that sad.
What really amazes me about this, is that the new ToaK gameplay looks very good; new abilities, combat options and ways to move around.
But somehow this person though that the best way to make the new Zelda look superior to FF16 (a game designed with SSD in mind)... was the loading times. It really blows my mind.
But well, it's Twitter. Best to ignore it and move on.
And in June FFXVI will be compare to not only Zelda but Starfield also because fanboys will always be fanboys… haha meanwhile I’ll play and enjoy all three of them hehe
Same here. I'll admit I was pretty meh on TOTK until the gameplay showcase, but now I'm definitely going to play it at least for a bit. Still not as excited about it as I am for FFXVI and Starfield though
the shimmy was 4 seconds. also don't presume that ff is loading during the shimmy. that's like saying botw is loading during that small ledge you have to climb before the intro plays.
I think they even came out and said it wasn’t to mask loading times. It was a design choice. Maybe a natural wall for enemy fighting, or to hide the new area for a surprise reveal.
Straight up being disingenuous.
IF you weren't actually blind and looked at that "controversial" clip, you can see that the area after tight space is already fully loaded; at this point that shimmy was literally just a design choice for that particular area.
IF it was for loading an area, we would legit not see the other side before the start of a shimmy let alone have it just be 3 seconds long.
Yeah and they showed in the recent PAX East stream that XVI loaded the save file in literally 4 seconds. That sounds much better than a 30 second load time to me.
You dont need to go to this sub just to make your BOTW ROTK look good. It looks shit minus the additional gameplay. BOTW literally had that elevator thingy to load things up in the sky which takes x 100 of FFXVI's shimmy 🤡
Yeah they’re two completely different things and that shimmy wasn’t a load. Way too short to be a load. There’s definitely instances in games where that is there to load stuff in but most of the time it’s not. Also don’t know if this guy is aware but the time it takes for Link to fall to the ground in TotK, there is most likely assets being loaded in during the fall, it’s also not a big deal that it is
Out of curiosity I looked the guy up and he sounds like just a weird troll. Most people don’t understand how a lot of things work in games, including me, but there’s basic small stuff like this that should be obvious
I wasn't too surprised when i saw the "I ❤️Dragon Quest".For what I've seen, DQ fans (not everyone of course) don't really have a soft spot for FF games, especially the modern ones and not to mention that many were FF fans that didn't like the direction of XI-XV.
I guess but even then it seemed too short. Seemed more like a way to lock off the player from leaving a combat zone until the fight’s over, or since Torgal was leading you there might’ve just been a hidden area. There’s a bunch of other reasons to have that there
okay shrek. The elevator thing in BOTW is also a form of loading if you want to argue. IT takes 100 of times the shimmy that FFXVI had. And you don't have to defend BOTW in ur grandma's basement . 🤡
Most of the criticisms lodged against FFXVI feel, well... petty, because they largely are. Some of it comes down to the fact that negativity drives views on most of the internet, and some of it is just natural-born contrarians looking for anything to be contrarian about.
Of course, there's also that most terrible contingent of gamers at all now in the mix-- those terrible, wasted souls of human beings that legitimately believe the technical aspects of a videogame are most paramount, and at the end of the day the sole determination of a game's worth.
Also an element of older FF fans who've turned to gatekeeping in a misplaced fear that the franchise reaching out for new fans will erode their own place in the fandom.
Anyways, yeah the complaints seem dumb because they are.
I've been playing FF since the 90s and you have to be insecure as hell to feel the series is leaving you behind. I fully embrace the change and this game is already looking to be my GOTY for sure.
With all due respect, a lot of people don't like the genre of a game series changing. No, 'action combat's not an evolution, it's an attempt to widen the net. A lot of people look at very successful jrpgs with a fraction of the budget of a FF, like Pokemon or Persona 5, or hell, even Dragon Quest and they wonder what would happen if a AAA game company actually went back to putting triple A values into JRPGS again.
A lot of people don't want to play an action game, they bounced off the other action titles and they're concerned they'll bounce off this one.
I think it'll be good, but not because they're trying to 'evolve' the past game play, but because they're going to try to make a good action game using tried and true action game basics that they overlooked in previous titles.
I mean, not telling people they're 'insecure' when a series is, factually, leaving them behind. You could make civ 7 into a real time strategy game and people would be right to feel betrayed by it.
Let me clarify then:
*You know what I mean and there is no need to pretend here,* and devaluing other peoples' opinions about a form of media they would like to enjoy but cannot because it's changed to a genre they don't enjoy just because they don't share your personal hype boner is kinda a dick thing to do and you should probably not do that.
I'm not asking you to agree with them. I'm asking you to not be a dick and mischaracterize them as being 'insecure' just because they aren't eager to stroke your hypeboner. Mischaracterizing others opinions as a means to devalue them is a sign of *your* insecurity, not theirs.
If someone says that they don't like the series going to action combat, *you can just acknowledge their opinion is* ***100%*** *valid, and that they* ***don't want to play a different genre of game*** *and continue to be hype over the thing you enjoy.* You don't need to call them insecure because *you are insecure when people don't agree with your hype.*
did he know what the heck is a fast travel?
he cant even differentiate this simple basic stuff SMH.
someone ask him to do fast travel in BOTW or do it with TOTK later and come back.
direct traversal in existing area no need for loading because things already load and simultaneously continuously preload as we player walk through it. did he ever play game like GTA and fly to sky and jump back down? there is also a reason why player cant move faster than that speed.
while fast travel is different. it is usually longer because whole everything need to reloaded instantly and thats what the demo is for.
where did this meme come from that "scenes involving limited movement" = loading? people in here are spouting it like some kind of game design gospel like they're the technical leads and gameplay leads or something. half life released in 1998 and has copius amount of sections where you hold W through long vents. would you presume to say that the game is "masking loading" at that time?
This subreddit is getting insufferable. All people do here are whine about the complaints. I've barely seen any negative feedback, yet we have people here digging for every twitter post to find something to be outraged about.
I absolutely guarantee that a, *FFXVI* is a more demanding game in terms of processing etc, and b, *Zelda: TotK* will have load times when quick travelling.
I'm the biggest Zelda fan out there but this is just an absurd comparison and useless at best. Ff16 looks fucking phenomenal and has practically no loading times at all already
TOTK is almost just overpriced dlc. Ff16 is a full current gen game with high detail graphics and seemingly smooth gameplay. People need to stop riding BOTW and TOTK so hard and realize their mistakes.
Tis' so. Me thinks ff16 fans should reflect on themselves prior to telling others what to do. They're the ones that think of Yoshi-p as some god who can do no wrong
While I don't consider a link to the past open world, I can see your point of view. I was referring to the groups of people that joined the zelda fandom with BOTW and claim it to be the best game ever made (even though it's not even the best Zelda game ever made) and that it created/pioneered genres.
....also the original Legend of Zelda comes before ALTTP lol
There's a common misconception with squeeze through animations like we saw in that clip. A lot of people seem to think it's *solely* used for loading, when it's used for different reasons such as level progression by locking the previous area behind. Other times, it's just set dressing, cause it makes sense given the environment and would be neat to have the characters crawl under some rubble and not just have them walking and running forward the entire time.
Take FFVIIR for instance, there are lots of cramped, tight spaces throughout the slums and you might have to squeeze through an alley to reach an area, but it's just the back of this shop and nothing more. They're not loading assets there for a tiny backyard, it just makes sense because of where the characters are at.
Another example is God of War (2018), where Kratos may lift a fallen pillar or log to pass through. The area behind them becomes inaccessible until much later after they clear the area or something. It's a tool used to keep players moving and progressing through the level.
Ironically, Link's seamless transition between the sky and land takes a much longer time than squeezing through some rocks, and is likely also loading assets as they approach the ground. So it works both ways: loading assets *and* set dressing because of course Link will take a long time to fall from the sky.
Oh sure, it got annoying there. Just saying that those weren’t all for loading assets, which is the thing a lot of people are assuming they’re *only* for. I used VIIR as an example cause I remember there being a few shimmying instances there where they’re clearly just set dressing and not used to mask loading.
The most simple reason might be that it acts as a barrier stopping the player from just running away from an area during combat. The alternative would be using some magical or invisible wall.
Both games are going to be fantastic, i wish we all could just appreciate the absolute masterpieces we'll able to play instead of being negative about them?
One thing I learn from arguing with trolls over the internet is that you dont try to reason with them. Instead, troll with them as well 🤡 But then again, who got a time for that. 😂
I'm not really defending. I'm confident but not super hyped and there are some things that i didn't like (Moogles are the same as XIV ones) I just don't see the point to compare two completely different games.
Listen in my day I waited minutes for cut scenes to play in Final Fantasy Chronicles/Anthology, I'm not bothered by the 3 seconds max of waiting. Some gamers need to practice patience.
No loading effect from sky to land you say, then explain me that awful loading time while you fast travel in BotW lol (I bought BotW when it’s launched btw
It's two different game architectures/experiences. If Bloodborne on PS4 ever teached us anything, is that loading times won't really undermine a good game anyway
If you want to look for an impressive loading time from a game on ps4, it should be Ghost of Tsushima. It loads incredibly fast for fast travel on a base ps4, plus the exploration of that game is so good too
Guys just secretly mad that ffxvi looks way better the shimmy isn't even a loading trick and a clear design choice cause vegetation can actually be dense
I really don’t understand the hate on shimmy sections. Like, it’s really never been a huge deal to me in a game whether it’s for loading purposes or for design reasons.
This is... huh. I mean, sure? But I'm pretty sure that the rising/falling is masking some kind of loading too, considering there's NO way the entire TotK map is all loaded at once, especially at full detail.
People who think making extremely complicated game features is simple stuff are…. Jdufjekfkeksoelkf
I’m not totally certain since I am on the art side of game dev, but I think in zelda when you go from sky to surface there is a huge level of detail shift of the assets (they’re super blocky but you can’t tell since they’re so far away). As link gets closer to the surface the LODs are lowering (getting more detailed). In ff16, they’re likely straight up loading in assets that were not present. And they’re very detailed assets.
This guy wants people to get mad and flame him on social media, that’s why he’s posting this. Because any “publicity” or engagement, good or bad, will generate comments and responses and push him up in relevance on the algorithm (on Twitter). The fact that we’re talking about this now is a testament to that. It’s outrage bait. Same shit as the people making YT videos about how “this isn’t Final Fantasy” and then getting tons of comments and views on the video. People do this on every social media platform.
Stop making these people relevant lol
The most annoying thing about this sub is that people constantly look for folks saying bad stuff about the game on Twitter, 4chan, Kotaku, whatever and post it like "dae disagree with this guy?????????" It's every day and it adds nothing beyond just getting everyone mad.
I mean it's probably easier to do that in TOTK considering the game visually hasn't advanced at all after 6 years and can't even hit 60fps. I'll never understand why Nintendo gets a pass for refusing to innovate and bring their games up to modern standards
Hold on. I get and agree that in terms of graphics, it didn't really change that much but i disagree with you that Nintendo refuse to innovate because they They've always tried to incorporate new mechanics into their games. And as much you are right saying that Nintendo should really advance their consoles, the truth is that they just don't care to keep up with the next gen (for now).
Nintendo does innovate, but their inability to catch up with a lot of industry standards at a reasonable pace (e.g. Cloud Saves or any sort of backups taking ages to implement, even then it still isn't supported on a few games like Pokemon, game purchases not transferring to the next platform generation, no trophy support) along with feature downgrades (i.e. no folders or customization for the Switch even though 3DS has them for ages) can be very frustrating to deal with.
What's worse, some of the fanboys defend these decisions with the worst reasonings possible, especially when it comes to platform-wide trophies.
I grew up with the DS and the Wii but the fanboys annoy me to no end. Nintendo should get a lot of flak on some of these anti-consumer decisions but they don't because it's Nintendo.
I love Nintendo products but as a company? It's really bad and has made (and still do) some of the worst decisions in the gaming industry, like still no themes on the Switch lol.
By refusing to innovate I meant on the technical side of things, sorry if that wasn't clear. Mainly talking about them not being up to modern standards of games
Although tbf, if we're talking about the games they make, TOTK looks like a pretty good example of being lazy to me. The game was originally supposed to just be a DLC and it shows. Kinda just feels like they're double dipping with the same game twice, just with some new added mechanics
Edit: lots of Zelda fanboys here apparently
Not gonna lie, at first i saw the same way, since it didn't really change that much from the first game and I would never have shown the Fuse mechanic in a gameplay presentation like yesterday .
I wouldn't have minded if it was DLC actually, still excited though.
This guy is absolutely smoking crack. TOTK literally hides its' own very version of shimmy loads, [shown here at 10:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7DIvd6eKY&t=621s). It's not just a shimmy load, but it literally removes all of the surrounding assets and teleports Link into another dimension so it can load in the assets it needs for the ascended area. It's literally technically worse than a shimmy load.
With an NVME, even a standard Gen 3 PC one, you don't need shimmy loads at all. They're more of a design choice now, i.e., stopping the player from being able to just run away from a fight, forest map design, etc. FFXVI is designed with a Gen 4 NVME (twice as fast) while the Nintendo Switch doesn't even have one, so it couldn't keep up even if it wanted to.
Edit: Also, the sky-to-land thing is very ignorant to say. You can quite clearly see the gradual pop-in of assets while he's flying down, so basically the world map is only streaming in the assets close to Link's landing destination. The rest of it is very low poly and looks like a PS1 game. [Example here at 11:29](https://youtu.be/HP7DIvd6eKY?t=689), pause and check the mountains.
> TOTK literally hides its' own very version of shimmy loads, shown here at 10:21
THIS. that one basically like their own version of Rachet & Clank's portal but this one masked with that fancy vertical animation sequence instead. or soul's game elevator section. i count it is around 5-6 sec there.
Isn't TOTK an open world sandbox title? Why is it being compared to a zone-based game like DQXI/Xenoblade?
Also, how the hell would you shimmy in the sky?
Xenoblade isn't actually that bad a comparison considering Xenoblade X, which was a massive open world with almost no visible loading after you first start up the game. IIRC, Nintendo hired MonolithSoft to help them out with BOTW because of that.
I think those games make the most sense, too. Yoshi-P also came from DQ, for example, and Xenoblade series world design is pretty much the same. The gameplay cycle may be kind of similar to GoW 2018, but the world is definitely like an SE/Monolith Soft title.
I would argue Zelda has closer comparison to Skyrim and the like.
Yeah, I noticed this dude constantly having weird hate boner for FFXVI. Kinda remind me of those sad 🤡 s from tlou2 hate sub, unable to move on after like 3 years already lol
It is great if you are Zelda fan + you enjoy an open world sandbox.
I personally hoped for a little bit more than just "more of the same" since Zelda games used to be more unique when compared to each other.
Not saying the game is going to be bad and I'm happy for everyone looking forward to getting it at release, but I will, for the first time, skip a Zelda title at it's release.
I have however boarded the full speed hypetrain for FFXVI. This going to be my goty 2023.
Nahh come on, i love my Switch. As for the PS5, i have almost the right amount of money to buy it and I'm planning to but right now i can't. If you know another way to buy it a bit cheaper or even free, let me know.....
😢
I got mine the old fashioned way, spending more than MSRP via a guy from Facebook lol. I like the Switch too but it's just not on the same level power-wise as PS5. When you've got the graphics FFXVI has some load times are to be expected.
This better be fuckin bait. Totk looks fun as hell but the "shimmy load" they showed in the FFXVI clip was like a second, it is nowhere near other games where they are clearly there to hide load times.
Assume this perspective: Petty shit-throwing like this is always a FANTASTIC sign.
They're desperately digging the bottom of the barrel for *something* to complain about, because it means even the Copium-OD'd haters are having trouble finding any real problems with the game.
It means the game has set itself up to be fucking amazing.
I have a friend who swears the graphics are worse than FFXV. I don't know how anyone can find that after what was shown. Graphics aside I don't know how anyone can defend the gameplay of FFXV over this gameplay that has been shown the last few days, they LITERALLY have an easier mode that looks like FFXV but more refined.
The graphics in XV were outright terrible in many aspects. I wonder if your friend has watched some footage of XVI with poor compression quality, and is comparing it to XV running in realtime in 4k?
I dunno man. As someone who played FFXV for more than 150hrs , I have never thought its graphics were better than FFXVI... I can say for sure that both are good in the graphics dept though.
I remember loads of people saying that the fast SSD in the PS5 was going to eliminate the need for awkward chokepoints in levels that are used to mask loading - so it is kind of funny to see the biggest 3rd party PS5 exclusive still making use of chokepoints to mask loading.
I never said that it was on the ssd. That was not my intention.
Of course it is either down to the devs, or maybe the engine. I just mentioned it because I thought that it was an absurd thing to see in the FFXVI footage.
It almost certainly is there to hide the loading tho. Just because the ssd is capable of eliminating these loading bottlenecks, that doesn't mean that developers are going to use it properly.
I think that maybe the game's engine (which is a modified version of the FFXIV engine) doesn't do a good job of streaming in new data. Locations look to be nice and big, but when you hit a dungeon the engine bottlenecks, and you have to use one of these last gen transition tunnels while the game loads in new textures.
They have said in interviews that it is a modified version of the FFXIV engine, so it's new in the sense that they have adapted it to support a lot of cutting edge graphics technologies, but it looks like they didn't modify the way that it loads in data.
I’m all for bashing FFXVI, but this ain’t it, chief. It’s two different things and way of traversal as well. One is fast travel, the other just travel. They are not the same.
I’d like to see comparisons of polygon counts and texture sizes between the 2 games. Even if we adjusted for the relative hardware performance of switch and ps5 I wouldn’t be surprised if FF16 is more technically impressive.
I went through this thread and this guy unironically believes that SSD's eradicated the existence of loading in video games. No cap. This guy might be the dumbest human being I've ever encountered on the internet, which says quite a lot.
This is a pretty old tweet.
I remember thinking that it took longer for Link to stand still there waiting for the big doors to open than it did for Clive to shimmy through the gap.
Not to even mention the completely incomparable size of assets to be loaded for each game/system.
Yeah, there is no real loading in FF 16. Also, compare the graphics between FF16 and TOTK...
I love Nintendo but it’s hilarious to me that someone would even try to compare performance fidelity of a Switch game to any PS5 title let alone an exclusive (that probably has first party support because Sony knows this game is going to be a huge product for them).
It's a Nintendo fanboy. On Twitter. That tells everything that you need to know.
I think the showcase from yesterday even included pop in at some point. So I am not sure what's wrong with a shimmy. Either way I am pretty sure both games will be great.
Not to mention that the distance between the ground and sky islands in TotK is seemingly very, very large. Plenty of time to load the new location and wipe the previous from memory.
Shimmy falls? Falling loads?
It did but I'm too lazy to write the timelaps.
I'm pretty sure Yoshi-P confirmed recently (either during the Media Tour or the PAX East panel) that Sony did assist on certain parts of the game like optimization for the PS5. Also, yeah, right there with you. But this is Twitter & Zelda's one of the biggest first-party Nintendo games there is. So lots of Console War tribalism is to be expected. Honestly, I think people only see shimmies as a means to disguise loading, not taking into account other reasons they might be there like prevent needless backtracking or boxing you in during combat for performance and/or design reasons. This same discussion happened when GOW: Ragnarok came out & plenty of devs came forward and explained the uses for the shimmies when that happened.
i absolutely love nintendo, very much a fanboy. but performance and fidelity are not nintendos primary concern. but they excel at amazing games
Agreed, their last good system that could actually compete with Microsoft and Sony was the Gamecube.....after that, they decided to go with 100% kiddie games
this remind me that on twitter there is article from Kotaku that want to argue devs claim about transition speed so the author compare FFXVI with Super Mario 64 claim that that game already done smooth transition from cutscene to gameplay. that guy seriously want to compare nintendo 64 game with 54mb size with FFXVI that the texture load alone could take GBs of size? i see similliar situation with Rachet & Clank where there is someone claim that the portal mechanic is possible without the fast ssd and he use a 700mb iphone tech demo as example lol.
I said this constantly when next gen consoles were being bragged on for the lack of “shimmy loading” as a feature because the tech was so fast it wasn’t needed. It’s just not true. While it’s true that they aren’t needed to hide loading screens technically they’ll still be used as a narrative device.
Yes there is.
Even if that was really the case, I never understood why ppl act like loading screens are such a big deal.
I mean, it can be a big deal if a next gen game has Pokemon Scarlet Violet or Sonic 06 level of loading screens, for example. In case of FFXVI is defenetly not a big problem, if none.
Playing RE4R and the loading in that is fast as shit it’s only like 3 seconds plus the pretty sure totk has long loading screens
This shimmy thing has been blown out of proportion and has shown how gamers have become annoyingly spoiled. And spoiled by what I have no idea, because XVI to be so shat upon when it's actually really fast is crazy.
It was a big deal to me in like he ps1 era. Get up to take a shit while tomb raider loads, etc. But it hasn't been NA issue for anyone over the age of 12 in multiple generations.
Lmao I forgot about the PS1 loading days
Waiting 30nseconds to respawn in between 20 second-long attempts in a PS4 era difficult game like Bloodborne really sucks
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I don’t think you understand how game development works
Right. Likewise, Nintendo advertised the switch has not needing to do this garbage of BoTW
If BotW is anything to go by, the game will take a minute or so to load before you can play. GOTY talks are starting and some people are going to throw shit at the "competition" becouse their life is that sad. What really amazes me about this, is that the new ToaK gameplay looks very good; new abilities, combat options and ways to move around. But somehow this person though that the best way to make the new Zelda look superior to FF16 (a game designed with SSD in mind)... was the loading times. It really blows my mind. But well, it's Twitter. Best to ignore it and move on.
Agree and I'm excited for both games.
Same, no matter who wins GOTY; with how many great games 2023 is going to have, we are the real winners.
Same, no matter who wins GOTY; with how many great games 2023 is going to have, we are the real winners.
And in June FFXVI will be compare to not only Zelda but Starfield also because fanboys will always be fanboys… haha meanwhile I’ll play and enjoy all three of them hehe
Same here. I'll admit I was pretty meh on TOTK until the gameplay showcase, but now I'm definitely going to play it at least for a bit. Still not as excited about it as I am for FFXVI and Starfield though
> I’ll play and enjoy all three of them hehe This is the way.
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the shimmy was 4 seconds. also don't presume that ff is loading during the shimmy. that's like saying botw is loading during that small ledge you have to climb before the intro plays.
I think they even came out and said it wasn’t to mask loading times. It was a design choice. Maybe a natural wall for enemy fighting, or to hide the new area for a surprise reveal.
Straight up being disingenuous. IF you weren't actually blind and looked at that "controversial" clip, you can see that the area after tight space is already fully loaded; at this point that shimmy was literally just a design choice for that particular area. IF it was for loading an area, we would legit not see the other side before the start of a shimmy let alone have it just be 3 seconds long.
Yeah and they showed in the recent PAX East stream that XVI loaded the save file in literally 4 seconds. That sounds much better than a 30 second load time to me.
Lol speaking of making shit up... You're full of it. They showed actual load times in ffxvi. It was 4 seconds to load a save into a new map area.
The irony of that first sentence lmao
You dont need to go to this sub just to make your BOTW ROTK look good. It looks shit minus the additional gameplay. BOTW literally had that elevator thingy to load things up in the sky which takes x 100 of FFXVI's shimmy 🤡
As we have seen the fast travel in FFXVI is way faster than BOTW, and I think TOTK will equally be slow as BOTW.
I'll say that ToTK will have even slower load times because it's a newer game that is slightly more improved than BoTW.
obviously. unless the devs could pull what Sucker Punch's did with Ghost of Tsushima. but still slower than FFXVI or game like Forspoken on PS5.
You know the game is gonna be great when the major complaints have been for frivolous things
This is obvious bait
Yeah they’re two completely different things and that shimmy wasn’t a load. Way too short to be a load. There’s definitely instances in games where that is there to load stuff in but most of the time it’s not. Also don’t know if this guy is aware but the time it takes for Link to fall to the ground in TotK, there is most likely assets being loaded in during the fall, it’s also not a big deal that it is
Yeah, it's what I'm thinking.
Out of curiosity I looked the guy up and he sounds like just a weird troll. Most people don’t understand how a lot of things work in games, including me, but there’s basic small stuff like this that should be obvious
I wasn't too surprised when i saw the "I ❤️Dragon Quest".For what I've seen, DQ fans (not everyone of course) don't really have a soft spot for FF games, especially the modern ones and not to mention that many were FF fans that didn't like the direction of XI-XV.
I mean, to be fair, it can be load. Fast travel was *four seconds* when they showed it off and loading a different file took *three seconds*.
I guess but even then it seemed too short. Seemed more like a way to lock off the player from leaving a combat zone until the fight’s over, or since Torgal was leading you there might’ve just been a hidden area. There’s a bunch of other reasons to have that there
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okay shrek. The elevator thing in BOTW is also a form of loading if you want to argue. IT takes 100 of times the shimmy that FFXVI had. And you don't have to defend BOTW in ur grandma's basement . 🤡
It took them a whole 4 seconds to load the entire world, they hardly need shimmying to hide loading screen.
Most of the criticisms lodged against FFXVI feel, well... petty, because they largely are. Some of it comes down to the fact that negativity drives views on most of the internet, and some of it is just natural-born contrarians looking for anything to be contrarian about. Of course, there's also that most terrible contingent of gamers at all now in the mix-- those terrible, wasted souls of human beings that legitimately believe the technical aspects of a videogame are most paramount, and at the end of the day the sole determination of a game's worth. Also an element of older FF fans who've turned to gatekeeping in a misplaced fear that the franchise reaching out for new fans will erode their own place in the fandom. Anyways, yeah the complaints seem dumb because they are.
I've been playing FF since the 90s and you have to be insecure as hell to feel the series is leaving you behind. I fully embrace the change and this game is already looking to be my GOTY for sure.
With all due respect, a lot of people don't like the genre of a game series changing. No, 'action combat's not an evolution, it's an attempt to widen the net. A lot of people look at very successful jrpgs with a fraction of the budget of a FF, like Pokemon or Persona 5, or hell, even Dragon Quest and they wonder what would happen if a AAA game company actually went back to putting triple A values into JRPGS again. A lot of people don't want to play an action game, they bounced off the other action titles and they're concerned they'll bounce off this one. I think it'll be good, but not because they're trying to 'evolve' the past game play, but because they're going to try to make a good action game using tried and true action game basics that they overlooked in previous titles.
I get it but what can you do? Either get the game or move on. People endlessly complaining won't change anything.
I mean, not telling people they're 'insecure' when a series is, factually, leaving them behind. You could make civ 7 into a real time strategy game and people would be right to feel betrayed by it.
Feeling betrayed over a video game? Sounds a bit hyperbolic no?
Let me clarify then: *You know what I mean and there is no need to pretend here,* and devaluing other peoples' opinions about a form of media they would like to enjoy but cannot because it's changed to a genre they don't enjoy just because they don't share your personal hype boner is kinda a dick thing to do and you should probably not do that. I'm not asking you to agree with them. I'm asking you to not be a dick and mischaracterize them as being 'insecure' just because they aren't eager to stroke your hypeboner. Mischaracterizing others opinions as a means to devalue them is a sign of *your* insecurity, not theirs. If someone says that they don't like the series going to action combat, *you can just acknowledge their opinion is* ***100%*** *valid, and that they* ***don't want to play a different genre of game*** *and continue to be hype over the thing you enjoy.* You don't need to call them insecure because *you are insecure when people don't agree with your hype.*
did he know what the heck is a fast travel? he cant even differentiate this simple basic stuff SMH. someone ask him to do fast travel in BOTW or do it with TOTK later and come back. direct traversal in existing area no need for loading because things already load and simultaneously continuously preload as we player walk through it. did he ever play game like GTA and fly to sky and jump back down? there is also a reason why player cant move faster than that speed. while fast travel is different. it is usually longer because whole everything need to reloaded instantly and thats what the demo is for.
where did this meme come from that "scenes involving limited movement" = loading? people in here are spouting it like some kind of game design gospel like they're the technical leads and gameplay leads or something. half life released in 1998 and has copius amount of sections where you hold W through long vents. would you presume to say that the game is "masking loading" at that time?
An influencer probably said something, and people thought it was the Eucharist, it answered everything about game design.
Why are we making threads about the opinions of literal who’s on twitter?
This subreddit is getting insufferable. All people do here are whine about the complaints. I've barely seen any negative feedback, yet we have people here digging for every twitter post to find something to be outraged about.
I absolutely guarantee that a, *FFXVI* is a more demanding game in terms of processing etc, and b, *Zelda: TotK* will have load times when quick travelling.
I'm the biggest Zelda fan out there but this is just an absurd comparison and useless at best. Ff16 looks fucking phenomenal and has practically no loading times at all already
TOTK is almost just overpriced dlc. Ff16 is a full current gen game with high detail graphics and seemingly smooth gameplay. People need to stop riding BOTW and TOTK so hard and realize their mistakes.
I'm a huge Zelda fan. Botw was mediocre and tears looks pretty dumb tbh
You get it. BOTW was so boring and bland imo and TOTK looks too similar
Yeah I'm hugely disappointed The combat in botw was simpler than tps
That last sentence is rich coming from an ff16 fan
Ikr it's a high quality statement after all
Tis' so. Me thinks ff16 fans should reflect on themselves prior to telling others what to do. They're the ones that think of Yoshi-p as some god who can do no wrong
I can agree some fans are wild with their praises and opinions. I know several BOTW fans who think they invented the open sandbox genre.
In a sense not wrong. Name a open sandbox game that comes before Zelda, a link to the past.
While I don't consider a link to the past open world, I can see your point of view. I was referring to the groups of people that joined the zelda fandom with BOTW and claim it to be the best game ever made (even though it's not even the best Zelda game ever made) and that it created/pioneered genres. ....also the original Legend of Zelda comes before ALTTP lol
There's a common misconception with squeeze through animations like we saw in that clip. A lot of people seem to think it's *solely* used for loading, when it's used for different reasons such as level progression by locking the previous area behind. Other times, it's just set dressing, cause it makes sense given the environment and would be neat to have the characters crawl under some rubble and not just have them walking and running forward the entire time. Take FFVIIR for instance, there are lots of cramped, tight spaces throughout the slums and you might have to squeeze through an alley to reach an area, but it's just the back of this shop and nothing more. They're not loading assets there for a tiny backyard, it just makes sense because of where the characters are at. Another example is God of War (2018), where Kratos may lift a fallen pillar or log to pass through. The area behind them becomes inaccessible until much later after they clear the area or something. It's a tool used to keep players moving and progressing through the level. Ironically, Link's seamless transition between the sky and land takes a much longer time than squeezing through some rocks, and is likely also loading assets as they approach the ground. So it works both ways: loading assets *and* set dressing because of course Link will take a long time to fall from the sky.
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It was REALLY annoying in FFVIIR
Oh sure, it got annoying there. Just saying that those weren’t all for loading assets, which is the thing a lot of people are assuming they’re *only* for. I used VIIR as an example cause I remember there being a few shimmying instances there where they’re clearly just set dressing and not used to mask loading.
Rather than set dressing it felt like they wanted you to spend more time to finish the game. Exploring felt like punishment.
The most simple reason might be that it acts as a barrier stopping the player from just running away from an area during combat. The alternative would be using some magical or invisible wall.
Both games are going to be fantastic, i wish we all could just appreciate the absolute masterpieces we'll able to play instead of being negative about them?
Both games will be my GOTY.
ff16 is not open world. TotK want to expand open world and possibilty in that sense so yes it completly different thing
Animal crossing propic and ''I love Dragon quest'' in the nickname, i mean...
I wasn't surprised when i saw that lol
are we comparing 2 game performances, that are different genres and on different systems, which have not even come out yet?
Seems so lol
These are console fanboys - people with empty life and even emptier pockets...
Like the switch could even run even a heavily nerfed version of 16. Fanboys like this are clowns.
One thing I learn from arguing with trolls over the internet is that you dont try to reason with them. Instead, troll with them as well 🤡 But then again, who got a time for that. 😂
The game hasn’t been released yet. People complaining about it and people defending it are equally dumb.
I'm not really defending. I'm confident but not super hyped and there are some things that i didn't like (Moogles are the same as XIV ones) I just don't see the point to compare two completely different games.
Spoken like someone who understands absolutely nothing about game design,
I don't get why two good games can't just exist without people having to tear one down to make the other look better... But that's Twitter for ya
Listen in my day I waited minutes for cut scenes to play in Final Fantasy Chronicles/Anthology, I'm not bothered by the 3 seconds max of waiting. Some gamers need to practice patience.
As someone who is hyped for both TotK and FF16 this is a stupid take
Theres always something to complain about...
No loading effect from sky to land you say, then explain me that awful loading time while you fast travel in BotW lol (I bought BotW when it’s launched btw
It's two different game architectures/experiences. If Bloodborne on PS4 ever teached us anything, is that loading times won't really undermine a good game anyway
If you want to look for an impressive loading time from a game on ps4, it should be Ghost of Tsushima. It loads incredibly fast for fast travel on a base ps4, plus the exploration of that game is so good too
Amen. I don't understand people that judge if a game is good or not only because of the loading time.
Guys just secretly mad that ffxvi looks way better the shimmy isn't even a loading trick and a clear design choice cause vegetation can actually be dense
Well the switch also uses dynamic resolution and dips to 648p when there's a lot a stuff happening on screen so...
30 fps, 900p...
Average Twitter user being salty, nothing new here.
I really don’t understand the hate on shimmy sections. Like, it’s really never been a huge deal to me in a game whether it’s for loading purposes or for design reasons.
I dont understand this complaint. If there wasnt any caves to shimmy in, ladders to climb, etc... the world would basically be one big open bland area
Isn't TOTK also a switch game with far far far far far less graphical capabilities and a much lower resolution?
This is... huh. I mean, sure? But I'm pretty sure that the rising/falling is masking some kind of loading too, considering there's NO way the entire TotK map is all loaded at once, especially at full detail.
People who think making extremely complicated game features is simple stuff are…. Jdufjekfkeksoelkf I’m not totally certain since I am on the art side of game dev, but I think in zelda when you go from sky to surface there is a huge level of detail shift of the assets (they’re super blocky but you can’t tell since they’re so far away). As link gets closer to the surface the LODs are lowering (getting more detailed). In ff16, they’re likely straight up loading in assets that were not present. And they’re very detailed assets.
People hop on any opportunity to compare games, but it seems to be from a Nintendo fanboy so go figure.
For one thing, Zelda is open world, and XVI is not. I saw that some people still don't know that despite how much they've said this.
This guy wants people to get mad and flame him on social media, that’s why he’s posting this. Because any “publicity” or engagement, good or bad, will generate comments and responses and push him up in relevance on the algorithm (on Twitter). The fact that we’re talking about this now is a testament to that. It’s outrage bait. Same shit as the people making YT videos about how “this isn’t Final Fantasy” and then getting tons of comments and views on the video. People do this on every social media platform. Stop making these people relevant lol
>i'm just saying, don't get mad at me for sharing a stupid opinion xdxdxdxd
I want the drugs this dope is on
FF16 is gonna be a better game plus. They aren’t even the same at all
nah, FFXVI is the greatest video game ever made by mankind. there, im saying it....
The most annoying thing about this sub is that people constantly look for folks saying bad stuff about the game on Twitter, 4chan, Kotaku, whatever and post it like "dae disagree with this guy?????????" It's every day and it adds nothing beyond just getting everyone mad.
Ok, sorry. I'm aware of that and it will be my last time (not planning to do again anyway) posting things like this.
I mean it's probably easier to do that in TOTK considering the game visually hasn't advanced at all after 6 years and can't even hit 60fps. I'll never understand why Nintendo gets a pass for refusing to innovate and bring their games up to modern standards
Hold on. I get and agree that in terms of graphics, it didn't really change that much but i disagree with you that Nintendo refuse to innovate because they They've always tried to incorporate new mechanics into their games. And as much you are right saying that Nintendo should really advance their consoles, the truth is that they just don't care to keep up with the next gen (for now).
Nintendo does innovate, but their inability to catch up with a lot of industry standards at a reasonable pace (e.g. Cloud Saves or any sort of backups taking ages to implement, even then it still isn't supported on a few games like Pokemon, game purchases not transferring to the next platform generation, no trophy support) along with feature downgrades (i.e. no folders or customization for the Switch even though 3DS has them for ages) can be very frustrating to deal with. What's worse, some of the fanboys defend these decisions with the worst reasonings possible, especially when it comes to platform-wide trophies. I grew up with the DS and the Wii but the fanboys annoy me to no end. Nintendo should get a lot of flak on some of these anti-consumer decisions but they don't because it's Nintendo.
I love Nintendo products but as a company? It's really bad and has made (and still do) some of the worst decisions in the gaming industry, like still no themes on the Switch lol.
By refusing to innovate I meant on the technical side of things, sorry if that wasn't clear. Mainly talking about them not being up to modern standards of games
That's true.
Although tbf, if we're talking about the games they make, TOTK looks like a pretty good example of being lazy to me. The game was originally supposed to just be a DLC and it shows. Kinda just feels like they're double dipping with the same game twice, just with some new added mechanics Edit: lots of Zelda fanboys here apparently
Not gonna lie, at first i saw the same way, since it didn't really change that much from the first game and I would never have shown the Fuse mechanic in a gameplay presentation like yesterday . I wouldn't have minded if it was DLC actually, still excited though.
I mean, didn't GoW and horizon do the same? Those games and their sequels looked exactly the same.
This guy is absolutely smoking crack. TOTK literally hides its' own very version of shimmy loads, [shown here at 10:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7DIvd6eKY&t=621s). It's not just a shimmy load, but it literally removes all of the surrounding assets and teleports Link into another dimension so it can load in the assets it needs for the ascended area. It's literally technically worse than a shimmy load. With an NVME, even a standard Gen 3 PC one, you don't need shimmy loads at all. They're more of a design choice now, i.e., stopping the player from being able to just run away from a fight, forest map design, etc. FFXVI is designed with a Gen 4 NVME (twice as fast) while the Nintendo Switch doesn't even have one, so it couldn't keep up even if it wanted to. Edit: Also, the sky-to-land thing is very ignorant to say. You can quite clearly see the gradual pop-in of assets while he's flying down, so basically the world map is only streaming in the assets close to Link's landing destination. The rest of it is very low poly and looks like a PS1 game. [Example here at 11:29](https://youtu.be/HP7DIvd6eKY?t=689), pause and check the mountains.
> TOTK literally hides its' own very version of shimmy loads, shown here at 10:21 THIS. that one basically like their own version of Rachet & Clank's portal but this one masked with that fancy vertical animation sequence instead. or soul's game elevator section. i count it is around 5-6 sec there.
Isn't TOTK an open world sandbox title? Why is it being compared to a zone-based game like DQXI/Xenoblade? Also, how the hell would you shimmy in the sky?
I really don't know. A random comparison indeed.
Xenoblade isn't actually that bad a comparison considering Xenoblade X, which was a massive open world with almost no visible loading after you first start up the game. IIRC, Nintendo hired MonolithSoft to help them out with BOTW because of that.
I think those games make the most sense, too. Yoshi-P also came from DQ, for example, and Xenoblade series world design is pretty much the same. The gameplay cycle may be kind of similar to GoW 2018, but the world is definitely like an SE/Monolith Soft title. I would argue Zelda has closer comparison to Skyrim and the like.
At least FF16 is something new lol
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The fuck wrong with you negative ass? If you don’t like the game don’t hang in a FFXVI sub lol
Yeah, I noticed this dude constantly having weird hate boner for FFXVI. Kinda remind me of those sad 🤡 s from tlou2 hate sub, unable to move on after like 3 years already lol
The BOTW ROTK is literally BOTW 1 again with additional features . Which is great. PS. Im trolling the troll. FFXVI ftw!
It is great if you are Zelda fan + you enjoy an open world sandbox. I personally hoped for a little bit more than just "more of the same" since Zelda games used to be more unique when compared to each other. Not saying the game is going to be bad and I'm happy for everyone looking forward to getting it at release, but I will, for the first time, skip a Zelda title at it's release. I have however boarded the full speed hypetrain for FFXVI. This going to be my goty 2023.
Combat is similar to DMC, but that's where it starts and ends. Totk is just botw again, but now you can go up lol.
Well, ya see, the PS5 is a current-gen top of the line console whereas the Switch is a glorified toaster.
Nahh come on, i love my Switch. As for the PS5, i have almost the right amount of money to buy it and I'm planning to but right now i can't. If you know another way to buy it a bit cheaper or even free, let me know..... 😢
I got mine the old fashioned way, spending more than MSRP via a guy from Facebook lol. I like the Switch too but it's just not on the same level power-wise as PS5. When you've got the graphics FFXVI has some load times are to be expected.
I should make i try...
I kinda have faith in FFXVI mainly because it wasn't stuck in dev hell for 10 years or something and it didn't start as FF Versus XIV or some shit.
*Versus XIII
Yes, that's what I was alluding to. But XVI might have started as Versus XIV, or some shenanigans like that.
This better be fuckin bait. Totk looks fun as hell but the "shimmy load" they showed in the FFXVI clip was like a second, it is nowhere near other games where they are clearly there to hide load times.
"I'm just saying don't get mad at me" hmm wierd that you get defensive immediately. It's almost like you're trying to start something...
Assume this perspective: Petty shit-throwing like this is always a FANTASTIC sign. They're desperately digging the bottom of the barrel for *something* to complain about, because it means even the Copium-OD'd haters are having trouble finding any real problems with the game. It means the game has set itself up to be fucking amazing.
While i don't think that is the case, i really really like what are you coming from!!
The Shimmy loads stuff is very strange to be in a PS5 game, you guys are crazy trying to defend it
I have a friend who swears the graphics are worse than FFXV. I don't know how anyone can find that after what was shown. Graphics aside I don't know how anyone can defend the gameplay of FFXV over this gameplay that has been shown the last few days, they LITERALLY have an easier mode that looks like FFXV but more refined.
The graphics in XV were outright terrible in many aspects. I wonder if your friend has watched some footage of XVI with poor compression quality, and is comparing it to XV running in realtime in 4k?
Both XV and XVI look incredible but no way is worse.
I dunno man. As someone who played FFXV for more than 150hrs , I have never thought its graphics were better than FFXVI... I can say for sure that both are good in the graphics dept though.
I remember loads of people saying that the fast SSD in the PS5 was going to eliminate the need for awkward chokepoints in levels that are used to mask loading - so it is kind of funny to see the biggest 3rd party PS5 exclusive still making use of chokepoints to mask loading.
If it's for loading than that's on the devs poor optimization.not the ssd
I never said that it was on the ssd. That was not my intention. Of course it is either down to the devs, or maybe the engine. I just mentioned it because I thought that it was an absurd thing to see in the FFXVI footage.
It is an absurd thing to see and a really annoying and rightfully hated design thing when it's not there to hide loading
It almost certainly is there to hide the loading tho. Just because the ssd is capable of eliminating these loading bottlenecks, that doesn't mean that developers are going to use it properly. I think that maybe the game's engine (which is a modified version of the FFXIV engine) doesn't do a good job of streaming in new data. Locations look to be nice and big, but when you hit a dungeon the engine bottlenecks, and you have to use one of these last gen transition tunnels while the game loads in new textures.
I'm honestly betting you are right about that The engine does seem to just be a modified sqaure engine despite them calling it new
They have said in interviews that it is a modified version of the FFXIV engine, so it's new in the sense that they have adapted it to support a lot of cutting edge graphics technologies, but it looks like they didn't modify the way that it loads in data.
Yupp. It's an updated version. And it probably does stream data the same and probably filters textures the same as well
I’m all for bashing FFXVI, but this ain’t it, chief. It’s two different things and way of traversal as well. One is fast travel, the other just travel. They are not the same.
I’d like to see comparisons of polygon counts and texture sizes between the 2 games. Even if we adjusted for the relative hardware performance of switch and ps5 I wouldn’t be surprised if FF16 is more technically impressive.
The fanboyism circus this year will be between FFXVI, TotK and Starfield. I'm glad I'll be playing all of them without choosing sided like a kid.
I'm actually excited for both games. Is just... They aren't comparable at all.
Can't forget armored core too
I went through this thread and this guy unironically believes that SSD's eradicated the existence of loading in video games. No cap. This guy might be the dumbest human being I've ever encountered on the internet, which says quite a lot.
I was watching the video, waiting for the loadscreen... then the vid ended. People are complaining about... that?
People like to complain about anything. Entitlement and expectations for games is through the roof nowadays.
This is a pretty old tweet. I remember thinking that it took longer for Link to stand still there waiting for the big doors to open than it did for Clive to shimmy through the gap. Not to even mention the completely incomparable size of assets to be loaded for each game/system.
Gotta love seeing people talk out of their asses and act like they are smarter than the actual dev.
Anybody with their Mii as a twitter avi obviously has the emotional capacity of a sheltered 5 year old. Disregard this tweet & carry on.
1.5 second shimmy load > 30+ second diving load. Just sayin
The live letter showcased about 3 second load times for fast travel. Pretty sure the shimmy hallways are a design choice related to combat.