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my favorite part about gamers is how they aren’t even consistent with their stances like one minute it’s “no to censorship” because RE4 remake doesn’t have the ability to view under a a girls skirt and the next it’s “based middle east” for wanting to censor LGBTQ characters in a game
Both are degrading to women and members of the LGBTQ+ community. So the overlap isn't hard that some gamers would sympathize with theocratic dictators.
Their stance is very consistently 'I want women and minorities to not be acknowledged as people.' For women that gets realized as objectification and for minorities it gets realized as not wanting them to exist.
No no no, minorities need to exist. Who else do we fight and kill as the evil bad guys that are simultaneously unstoppable forces of terror, yet just incompetent enough that we THE HERO can win?
Kind of wish games would stop including this stuff. Like in Nier:Automata if you look at 2B's underwear she smacks the camera away. Funny joke but you still let them do the thing.
Reminding me of the Folding Ideas vid where he talks about how any action that is programmed and allowed in-game is intended behavior by the devs. Like yeah, these women disapprove of your behavior but my brother in christ you specifically intended for that behavior to begin with
I think there are some exceptions to the rule here, like the programmed actions that punish players for pirating, for example, but these are exceptions that prove the rule. You are absolutely correct.
Anyone who programs DRM into their game or makes an always-online game that isn't strictly multi-player (see blizzard) is absolute scum and slowly sucking the life out of the gaming industry
What they're talking about isn't DRM, it's stuff like Game Dev Tycoon forcibly making your company go bankrupt because your games keep getting pirated, which is both kinda funny and also only exists in a version of the game that was uploaded to thepiratebay by the devs themselves. So it A) Had zero affect on people who purchased the game as it wasn't there at all and B) Wouldn't happen to anyone who pirated it after like, release day.
Spyro (and I believe some other insomniac games at the time) had a similar system whenever the game detected a modchip.
I think these forms of drm are like, fine basically. Compared to real DRM they're much easier to bypass but also don't negatively impact the average consumer at all. And if done sneakily (like Spyro) can actually delay the crack of a game by making it seem like it was cracked when it wasn't.
In the territory of 'fun fact', one of the most famous anti-piracy measures in games is actually Earthbound, which would let you play all the way up to the final boss, and then just 'glitch out' and wipe your save. Sure you could play the game, but you could never have the satisfaction of finishing it or seeing the ending cutscene. Brutal stuff.
I don't get the quote, is it saying things like exploits and glitches (infinite item duplication glitch in TES4 comes to mind) are inherently intended behavior because they exist?
Edit: I need more context on this quote because that's pretty wild for a game dev to say imo
A glitch is the result of something bring programmed, it's not something that has intentionally been programmed in. I would assume he was talking about intentionally added features, that all features are intended to be used.
So he's saying that things specifically developed and coded to be in the game are intended to be in the game? Because I think that.... Makes sense.... But it's also like saying a hammer can be used to hit things hard?
Or is it a commentary on things that make it into video games that probably shouldn't, like the BDSM SpongeBob art in the PS1 SpongeBob game?
I'm a programmer myself and I often see things go awry in real interesting, unintended ways, so I'm just curious what a dev would mean by this with proper context.
I am guessing, but I think he's saying things that are intentionally in the game are intended to be found in the game, not just to sit there and stay hidden from everyone.
Gotcha, yeah I would hard disagree with that, even random data (images, music, placeholders, etc) can end up in prod releases if the team isn't on their game when it comes to refactoring/optimizing. Unused assets and files, cut content that would take longer to remove than to hide and ship, etc., all make it into games pretty often, maybe moreso now than before due to the amount of memory and processing power devices have now.
Maybe I need to search this quote myself and read everything around it to get the proper context.
Edit: JUSTIN BAILEY in Metroid might be another example of this, is it intended or not? Dynamic password system just so happens to give special properties when typing in a random name. The function that reads this password and sets flags for single player doesn't have a special hook for a Justin Bailey, it just so happens that those values yield weird single player values, I believe. But since the dev coded it to perform it's general function specifically, then it's not actually a bug, glitch, or anything "wrong" because that usecase doesn't break the intended usage of the password system?
I'm not a fan of this quote yet lol.
While that quote is likely about specific things that were very intentionally added in (Like women getting mad at you for trying to look up their skirts), as a whole I'm a firm believer that exploits and glitches are fair game from a player perspective. While they were certainly unintended they are also part of the game.
It's also saying that interactions between any amount of different mechanics, possibly implemented years apart by different developers, that are unforseen by the last developer in said chain inherently cannot exist.
Also another possible interpretation, of the three or so I can come up with. It's an interesting quote but I just want some context since it seems maybe there was something specific that the quoted dev was trying to highlight.
I'd argue that Ashley saying that encourages people to do it. I like dudes and have otherwise never bothered with an upskirt shot, but I definitely looked up at Ashley to hear her say the line.
All I ask for is equality in the horny. If they're gonna be perverts then make a way to objectify the twink of a lad as well as the girl.
Either it goes both ways or no ways.
I absolutely hate myself for using this example but Genshin Impact has a mechanic where the character reverts to a wire-frame/see through type model if the player attempts to look under the character. Since the game features a lot of climbing it's easy to inadvertently have this occur frequently during play.
I could also see limiting the camera as a way, but would remind myself many modern games need the player to look far up in some capacity. Say for puzzle solving or climbing. Limiting the camera may become problematic for a game that requires action movements.
I mentioned it in a while back but Japanese publishers on a whole are trying to get away from up-skirts because of CERO D classification. Doesn't matter if the game you made is just happy go lucky color puke fest. If it's say at CERO B and there's one up-skirt with panty visible or encourages the player to look under it's now an instant CERO D.
I know some games put a barrier that looks like a shadow effect underneath the skirt or dress. That design makes it clear that you're looking up a character's skirt, but you don't actually see anything untoward.
Because they're fash that want things to make their pricks hard and get scared by the existence of sexualities, genders, and ideologies they don't belong to.
There's a great video on this over on YouTube. I don't like to link things in subs I'm new in, but hit up YouTube and search for the "Alt Right Playbook The Card Says Moop." You'll find it for sure.
The TLDR is that they don't have any actual opinions or strongly held beliefs. They adopt whatever belief they need to "win" whatever they're talking about, usually by making the person they're talking to feel shitty. They absolutely will contradict themselves if given enough topics/time, because they don't hold consistent beliefs.
half the time they're complaining that "this character being gay doesn't do anything to move the plot so why include it?" and the other half of the time they're complaining that gay characters should "act normal and stop making being gay their whole deal"
"If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class” - some dude named Wiegraf from some game about the church being a tool for gaining political power...
I love it when people are like "games shouldn't be political because they weren't before." Like, bruh, Final Fantasy 7 has eco-terrorism, eugenics, corporate *everything terrible*.
Final Fantasy X discussed the ethics of organised religion and how much power they should have. Also racism towards a group of people who don’t want to follow said religion.
Yep, not political at all.
Heck, most FF games are political in some way.
* FF4 starts off with Cecil objecting to what are basically fantastical war crimes and defecting from his kingdom.
* FF5 has both a crossdressing pirate ("Oh, my stars and comets! HE'S A SHE!") and the protagonists try to stop various kingdoms from exploiting the crystals in an unintentional global warming metaphor.
* FF6 has an evil empire who committed near genocide on the Espers and is keeping them captive in factories where they are killed and turned into Magicite, a very trans-coded protagonist in Terra, Sabin, who has some gay subtext about him (he has a favorite flower kit, is called a "bear" by Terra) and has a sympathetic black character in General Leo (He has dark skin in all versions except the SNES original, because of color pallet limitations.)
i havent played many ff games (ff15, 12, 14 and 7 remake) but even then the games at least have political themes. FF15 has the niflheim empire, a fascist military regime that is rooted in imperialism and violence against the reserved monarch kingdom of Lucis, of whom protect the crystal and its people.
FF12 literally has a protagonist who is a street beggar, and he starts off killing rats for money in a sewer and he dreams of becoming a pirate to escape his poverty underneath the military regime that are occupying his lands.
FF14 i got no clue on because ARR is so boring but smarter people than me have explained reasonings in that one. Final Fantasy has such deep roots in politics people dont even notice lmao
In the Final Fantasy sub there is currently a shockingly long comment chain arguing straight up Sappho and Her Friend shit re: Fang and Vanille
If one of them was a man would you have *any* fucking doubt that they're banging? God damn, people
Some people have always been like that about XIII. "No, you see, in Japan girls can be very close friends sometimes, stop trying to make everyone gay!" If the characters don't look at the camera and announce they're gay, then people are just looking for things that aren't there.
And then when characters do look at the camera and announce they're gay, these same people get mad because "ew, why are you shoving your agenda down my throat?"
Like, on one hand yeah, I think shippers can be irritating and not every relationship needs to be romantic/sexual (though I believe the fluidity of art allows for basically any reading so I don't think shippers are *wrong*, just an annoying byproduct of capital lettered Fandoms that make discourse impossible).
On the other hand there are times when it is *absolutely clear* in the subtext that two characters are romantically linked and you either need to have legendarily low media literacy or to have just never seen two people in love in your life to insist otherwise, and XIII *really* exposes this other hand in ways that I didn't think possible. FF has never been a super queer series (no, the Honeybee Inn segment in VII was pure Gay Panic comic relief in the OG) but Fang+Vanille in XIII and Ryne+Gaia in XIV are the most blunt-force-obvuious lesbian relationships I've seen in gaming that don't include explicit scissoring.
Hoes just mad that Fang Mommy doesn't want to step on *them*
I don’t think I’d agree that FF isn’t super queer. In terms of JRPGs specifically, I’d say it’s probably one of the queerest franchises. Specifically look at how overwhelmingly camp and queer FFX-2 is, and you can easily view FFXV very compellingly under a queer lens. VIIR obviously has the amazing honeybee scene, and all three XIII games either explicitly feature gay romance or are camp AF.
You mean the central figures of the raid series that borrows heavily from VIII? The one that explicitly centers the romance between the two leads, was marketed as a romance, with a smash hit love ballad, and the two lovers embracing in the game's logo?
No way. They're just Really Good Friends!
With the [cutscene that's literally a shot for shot remake of a het romance scene from FFVIII but with a giant rainbow crystal?](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1338391598468513792?lang=en#m)
Oh my god, they were roommates.
I remember getting downvoted like crazy for stating the obvious.
They pose in front of a giant rainbow while the love theme from FFVIII plays.
I think it threatens some self-proclaimed allies that LGBTQ characters aren't just included or window dressing, but central.
And then they tell you about the cute date they went on.
Some people would refuse to get it even if Gaia stenciled "We Are Lesbians" on her hammer and hit them in the face with it while kissing Ryne.
In general I agree but when it comes to liberal allies trying to rules-lawyer the queerness out of Ryne and Gaia I think it stems more from XIV being largely sexless. The only character that I can buy has ever fucked is Thancred and even then that ship sailed years ago because he's been too hung up on the fact that Minfillia died before getting the chance to say "you're like a brother to me". The game does everything it can to keep the Scions single with no romantic interests at all beyond the player character (with G'raha being obsessed with you and Alisaie poorly hiding a crush, covering two bases by giving you a man and woman fawning over you), so I suspect certain fans just can't grapple with the fact that their favorite cute angelic 16 year old fell for somebody other than your self-insert
It's more than that, it's that the confirmed relationship is same sex.
Opposite sex relationships aren't well represented in the canon.
Being in the minority in a single work of fiction is intolerable for many dweebs.
This is also why they try desperately to see Runar/Y'shtola being anything more than an unrequited crush from his end and even try to equate it to Gaia/Ryne.
You may be on to something but I haven't seen anything indicating as such personally. Maybe it's because I'm straight and therefore less sensitive/aware of things like that and I could just be offering too much benefit of the doubt to whiners on the internet, but personally I think more people deny their obvious relationship because basically every single conversation across like 500 hours of dialogue is centered around how you are just the best, super coolest awesomest best-at-everythingest person ever in the history of Eorzea and every good thing in everybody's life is attributed to your stunning perfection always and forever, and the fact that precisely one and only one character ultimately finds her happiness elsewhere feels like a slight to those people who now feel entitled to uncritical adoration thanks to all that shit.
So basically we agree that dorks routinely whitewash the obvious queer relationship but don't quite see eye to eye on specifically why that is, lol.
The absolute worst type of this is liberal rules-lawyering is suggesting that noticing Ryne and Gaia's obvious but also extremely PG queerness is sexualizing minors.
/uj if ff16 protagonist doesnt have unskippable sweaty raw gay sex on screen for a minimum of 600 hours as part of the main questline I am boycotting it
at this point it might just happen.
square enix has been so thirsty for new customer demographics that they straight up turned FF15's cast into an idol boy band. when they say LGBTQ+ there's a 100% chance they mean man on man, ass to ass.
FYI to those who aren't familiar, the director of XVI directed the critically acclaimed MMORPG XIV. He has spoken about witnessing discrimination against a young trans person, how it made him feel, and that he wants to use his stories to advance equality as far as business interests permit.
In XIV there are two zones, in two different expansions, filled almost exclusively with gender nonbinary characters who use the singular 'they'.
For a year, the endgame content was centered on the relationship between two queer-coded female characters, with the reward at the end being a scene of the two of them embracing in front of a giant rainbow.
The most recent Valentine's Day event was a short story about the friendship between a gender-nonconforming girl and her feminine friend, neither of which could last a day in each other's shoes.
Hell, one of the protagonists of FFV back in 1992 was an FTM crossdresser!
So anyone who says queer content doesn't belong in Final Fantasy is fibbing.
That is genuinely so so cool. I would've never known this. Really good on the director
Edit: adding some more. I don't know if another game has really done stuff like that. Also, with all the Hogwarts stuff. I am non-binary which I think falls under the Trans umbrella, so it really feels good to see a major game put their foot down like this.
I've been really excited for FFXVI since it's first trailer so I am a happy person.
love Yoshi-P and his game design philosophy. Only wish is that he would get a little better about race issues cause we've seen that be a problem with him recently
I never played any FF title but I thought there was a very muscular black guy in FF7 or something. Also "I AM GOING TO DEFEAT CHAOS" game has a black guy in it.
Also I'm really curious about their "reason" to not include any POC characters. Can you tell me that?
> I thought there was a very muscular black guy in FF7
Yup, Barret. He was a pretty caricatural "Mr. T" character and, let's be honest, gorilla-esque in his behavior (chest beating and all...)
FF7 Remake's version of him is more sensible in that regard.
> Also I'm really curious about their "reason" to not include any POC characters
Basically, the producer said that FF16's world is "rooted in reality", hence why this fantasy medieval world will be less diverse than ~~the actual medieval England it's based on~~ modern day Earth.
Oh wow. When I played original ff7 I coded his behaviour as hyper machismo with limited expressive resources so as to give the gruff outside sincere inside trope, I didn't even think to see it that way.
The Japanese development team somehow thought people of African descent hadn't migrated to Europe during the medieval period. An assumption they probably should have googled.
If it makes you feel any better, they didn't include anybody from their own continent either.
Lmao "moorish" and "saracen" characters are a thing in medieval literature, even in arthurian romance. You see them just hanging around, doing knightly things after converting to christianity. I'm pretty sure they are based on actual africans and middle easterners who decided to convert and live in Medieval Europe.
Sure Medieval Europe wasn't a highly cosmopolite place but that doesn't mean there were literally zero people from other regions of the world.
/uj It's extra galling because some of the cultures in XVI are clearly inspired by Middle-Eastern cultures, but nooooo we can't have non-white people because Europe.
Oh man if I'd have known all my Lalafell lesbian ERPing in FFXIV was going to bleed into the rest of the games I never would have done it.
My bad guys.
Like only a based gamer can.
UJ: I don't actually erp as anything. But I always thought Lalafells were more like little people than children. I never understood why everyone sees them that way.
I only played to like level ten or something, but my starting zone was in the Lalafell desert city. I didn't get super deep into the story, but I seem to remember it being about a group of scheming businessmen Lalafell scamming their way into a coup.
So I never stopped thinking they looked ridiculous, but I never saw them as childlike.
It's like the 9000 years old vampire. Sure, Lolorito, you're a cunning business man with more blood in your hands than gold in your pockets, but you still look like a 4 years old boy with a fake mustach.
Lalafell may be the most mentally adults of all races in the game, they still look like children in the end.
Plus, as someone that actually does eRP ingame, I find that the only players interested in Lalafell are because they're short, flat, cute and innocent looking, not because they're scheming mastermind ready to burn the country for a smidge of power...
Lalafell look like the old sprites from the 90s, but sure, go off.
Yes there are some sketchy lalafell, but you'll see more questionable underaged looking min height miqo or au ra in your average CT runs that you do sketch lalafell in the wild
Rare Square Enix W last time they had one of those for me is when the Guardians of the Galaxy game came out which I consider it one of the best superhero games out there along with the Arkham series and the insomniac Spider-Man series and then they sold the studio that made it decreasing the chance of a sequel so that was a massive L
If that really is true and there is gay content in my favourite gaming series, I'm gonna have a full on sobbing moment. Fuck everything happening right now but in a way we are still moving forward.
This game is run by a board member, but the rest of the board and former CEO seem to have gone nuts.
It’s what happens when all the leadership are business majors instead of programmers, writers, and others within the company that showed leadership skills.
ah, so a certain subset of square is based.
here's to hoping whatever bullshit befalls square as a result of it's current.crazy business decisions ends up with this guy in charge, because holy fuck it would be hilarious to just point at square every time some weeb brought up "muh holy japanese masterpieces that avoid wokeness"
Square was the only studio to pick up Life is Strange.
The other publishers demanded queer content be removed by switching the gender of the protagonist.
As someone who loves FFXIV, yeah.
Dude has had some weird at best and downright offensive at worst takes surrounding FF16, and it’s honestly just made me look at some of his contributions to FFXIV in a completely different light.
Japanese corporate culture and Japan more broadly has some problematic takes on race. Knew some people who went over there to teach and the depictions of black people children are allowed to get away with are disturbing (again, just accounts I’ve heard from friends I didn’t see them myself).
I wouldn’t be surprised. Haven’t been there or seen any of it firsthand myself, but what you’re describing aligns with what I’ve heard.
I think what frustrates me the most about Yoshi-P ignoring race representations is that this new setting (forgot what it’s called, lost interest in ff16 as soon as it was revealed to be a DMC clone) is that it seems obviously inspired by Ivalice from FF12/Tactics, and Yoshi-P just seems too dense to realize how large the multicultural aspect of Ivalice was. As well as just the general ahistorical view that Medieval Europe was all white people (Moors? Never heard of them).
Don’t even get me started on the gross accessibility gatekeeping lol
I understand the frustration there. I’d be careful of the monkey’s paw in this instance. It’s actually hard for people to tastefully address diversity in fictional media imo. Harder still when you don’t have access to such diverse experiences in your personnel. Hell, just look at some of the more… problematic POC representations in anime if you want some examples of Japanese companies struggling to portray races that aren’t Caucasian or Japanese. Seems Square Enix and Yoshi-P are bringing in more diverse viewpoints on gender/sexuality and I’m glad they are doing so, but it’s going to take a heck of a lot more work for an older and larger Japanese studio like Square to talk about race in a non cringe manner.
That’s fair. I’m not saying that FF was ever GOOD about racial representation, but it was there in the later games.
I think some of the more recent FF games approached the matter in a more nuanced way.
Barrett was great in FF7:R, Sazh was good all the way back in 2009, even Yoshi-P’s own FFXIV is pretty great with the matter (mostly). FF12 did a fantastic job of showcasing a multiethnic society. So it just feels like a step back.
I do think it’s interesting that no one has addressed the ableism aspect of Yoshi-P’s comments. I imagine that is harder to defend.
Correct. Square Enix doing this is them being willing to trade being banned in those regions in exchange for good press about not censoring queer stuff.
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my favorite part about gamers is how they aren’t even consistent with their stances like one minute it’s “no to censorship” because RE4 remake doesn’t have the ability to view under a a girls skirt and the next it’s “based middle east” for wanting to censor LGBTQ characters in a game
Their beliefs are consistent if you assume their goal is their own personal gratification rather than carrying about a specific cause.
Gamers embody protagonist logic
Both are degrading to women and members of the LGBTQ+ community. So the overlap isn't hard that some gamers would sympathize with theocratic dictators.
My cause? Personal gratification 😎
Their stance is very consistently 'I want women and minorities to not be acknowledged as people.' For women that gets realized as objectification and for minorities it gets realized as not wanting them to exist.
No no no, minorities need to exist. Who else do we fight and kill as the evil bad guys that are simultaneously unstoppable forces of terror, yet just incompetent enough that we THE HERO can win?
Because me mega perv need to see up woman skirt unga booga LGBTQ scare me😢
you couldn’t even look under ashley’s skirt in the original
I'm pretty sure she would cover herself and call you a pervert.
Yeah but theyre into that
Kind of wish games would stop including this stuff. Like in Nier:Automata if you look at 2B's underwear she smacks the camera away. Funny joke but you still let them do the thing.
Reminding me of the Folding Ideas vid where he talks about how any action that is programmed and allowed in-game is intended behavior by the devs. Like yeah, these women disapprove of your behavior but my brother in christ you specifically intended for that behavior to begin with
I think there are some exceptions to the rule here, like the programmed actions that punish players for pirating, for example, but these are exceptions that prove the rule. You are absolutely correct.
Anyone who programs DRM into their game or makes an always-online game that isn't strictly multi-player (see blizzard) is absolute scum and slowly sucking the life out of the gaming industry
What they're talking about isn't DRM, it's stuff like Game Dev Tycoon forcibly making your company go bankrupt because your games keep getting pirated, which is both kinda funny and also only exists in a version of the game that was uploaded to thepiratebay by the devs themselves. So it A) Had zero affect on people who purchased the game as it wasn't there at all and B) Wouldn't happen to anyone who pirated it after like, release day. Spyro (and I believe some other insomniac games at the time) had a similar system whenever the game detected a modchip. I think these forms of drm are like, fine basically. Compared to real DRM they're much easier to bypass but also don't negatively impact the average consumer at all. And if done sneakily (like Spyro) can actually delay the crack of a game by making it seem like it was cracked when it wasn't.
In the territory of 'fun fact', one of the most famous anti-piracy measures in games is actually Earthbound, which would let you play all the way up to the final boss, and then just 'glitch out' and wipe your save. Sure you could play the game, but you could never have the satisfaction of finishing it or seeing the ending cutscene. Brutal stuff.
I don't get the quote, is it saying things like exploits and glitches (infinite item duplication glitch in TES4 comes to mind) are inherently intended behavior because they exist? Edit: I need more context on this quote because that's pretty wild for a game dev to say imo
A glitch is the result of something bring programmed, it's not something that has intentionally been programmed in. I would assume he was talking about intentionally added features, that all features are intended to be used.
So he's saying that things specifically developed and coded to be in the game are intended to be in the game? Because I think that.... Makes sense.... But it's also like saying a hammer can be used to hit things hard? Or is it a commentary on things that make it into video games that probably shouldn't, like the BDSM SpongeBob art in the PS1 SpongeBob game? I'm a programmer myself and I often see things go awry in real interesting, unintended ways, so I'm just curious what a dev would mean by this with proper context.
I am guessing, but I think he's saying things that are intentionally in the game are intended to be found in the game, not just to sit there and stay hidden from everyone.
Gotcha, yeah I would hard disagree with that, even random data (images, music, placeholders, etc) can end up in prod releases if the team isn't on their game when it comes to refactoring/optimizing. Unused assets and files, cut content that would take longer to remove than to hide and ship, etc., all make it into games pretty often, maybe moreso now than before due to the amount of memory and processing power devices have now. Maybe I need to search this quote myself and read everything around it to get the proper context. Edit: JUSTIN BAILEY in Metroid might be another example of this, is it intended or not? Dynamic password system just so happens to give special properties when typing in a random name. The function that reads this password and sets flags for single player doesn't have a special hook for a Justin Bailey, it just so happens that those values yield weird single player values, I believe. But since the dev coded it to perform it's general function specifically, then it's not actually a bug, glitch, or anything "wrong" because that usecase doesn't break the intended usage of the password system? I'm not a fan of this quote yet lol.
While that quote is likely about specific things that were very intentionally added in (Like women getting mad at you for trying to look up their skirts), as a whole I'm a firm believer that exploits and glitches are fair game from a player perspective. While they were certainly unintended they are also part of the game.
It's also saying that interactions between any amount of different mechanics, possibly implemented years apart by different developers, that are unforseen by the last developer in said chain inherently cannot exist.
Also another possible interpretation, of the three or so I can come up with. It's an interesting quote but I just want some context since it seems maybe there was something specific that the quoted dev was trying to highlight.
I'd argue that Ashley saying that encourages people to do it. I like dudes and have otherwise never bothered with an upskirt shot, but I definitely looked up at Ashley to hear her say the line.
I seem to remember there’s a trophy for doing it a certain number of times too, rewarding persistence.
All I ask for is equality in the horny. If they're gonna be perverts then make a way to objectify the twink of a lad as well as the girl. Either it goes both ways or no ways.
How exactly would one limit this? Limit the range of the camera?
I absolutely hate myself for using this example but Genshin Impact has a mechanic where the character reverts to a wire-frame/see through type model if the player attempts to look under the character. Since the game features a lot of climbing it's easy to inadvertently have this occur frequently during play. I could also see limiting the camera as a way, but would remind myself many modern games need the player to look far up in some capacity. Say for puzzle solving or climbing. Limiting the camera may become problematic for a game that requires action movements. I mentioned it in a while back but Japanese publishers on a whole are trying to get away from up-skirts because of CERO D classification. Doesn't matter if the game you made is just happy go lucky color puke fest. If it's say at CERO B and there's one up-skirt with panty visible or encourages the player to look under it's now an instant CERO D.
Also don’t the characters in such revealing outfits.
Shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear.
I know some games put a barrier that looks like a shadow effect underneath the skirt or dress. That design makes it clear that you're looking up a character's skirt, but you don't actually see anything untoward.
Yep. I remember absolutely losing my mind because lady, I’m just trying to climb this ladder! We gotta go!!
Because they're fash that want things to make their pricks hard and get scared by the existence of sexualities, genders, and ideologies they don't belong to.
There's a great video on this over on YouTube. I don't like to link things in subs I'm new in, but hit up YouTube and search for the "Alt Right Playbook The Card Says Moop." You'll find it for sure. The TLDR is that they don't have any actual opinions or strongly held beliefs. They adopt whatever belief they need to "win" whatever they're talking about, usually by making the person they're talking to feel shitty. They absolutely will contradict themselves if given enough topics/time, because they don't hold consistent beliefs.
At least they're consistently dipshit losers
half the time they're complaining that "this character being gay doesn't do anything to move the plot so why include it?" and the other half of the time they're complaining that gay characters should "act normal and stop making being gay their whole deal"
G🤢mers hate censorship but they love objectifying women way more
Ah yes, Final Fantasy, my favorite non political game series...
ff7, a game well known for its apolitical themes
A landmark moment in eco-terrorist representation.
By SquareEnix, a studio known for not making overt political and religious themes. Barring the one where you have to kill God.
"If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exists for the lower class” - some dude named Wiegraf from some game about the church being a tool for gaining political power...
I was literally radicalized by fft in grade 9
Wiegraf does not actually say that line in game. It's an edit.
But it is consistent with his actual position
FFXIV the game's main antagonist is s literal fascistic empire for like most of the time.
Xenogears was such a mindblowing experience for this little Catholic kid
They alluded to priest molesting refugees. God old Square was great.
>Barring the one where you have to kill God It's funny because this doesn't even narrow down which game you're referring to.
I could have said comments on the Catholic church. And it would still be several of their games.
All good JRPGs end with using the power of friendship to kill God.
I love it when people are like "games shouldn't be political because they weren't before." Like, bruh, Final Fantasy 7 has eco-terrorism, eugenics, corporate *everything terrible*.
Final Fantasy X discussed the ethics of organised religion and how much power they should have. Also racism towards a group of people who don’t want to follow said religion. Yep, not political at all.
Heck, most FF games are political in some way. * FF4 starts off with Cecil objecting to what are basically fantastical war crimes and defecting from his kingdom. * FF5 has both a crossdressing pirate ("Oh, my stars and comets! HE'S A SHE!") and the protagonists try to stop various kingdoms from exploiting the crystals in an unintentional global warming metaphor. * FF6 has an evil empire who committed near genocide on the Espers and is keeping them captive in factories where they are killed and turned into Magicite, a very trans-coded protagonist in Terra, Sabin, who has some gay subtext about him (he has a favorite flower kit, is called a "bear" by Terra) and has a sympathetic black character in General Leo (He has dark skin in all versions except the SNES original, because of color pallet limitations.)
i havent played many ff games (ff15, 12, 14 and 7 remake) but even then the games at least have political themes. FF15 has the niflheim empire, a fascist military regime that is rooted in imperialism and violence against the reserved monarch kingdom of Lucis, of whom protect the crystal and its people. FF12 literally has a protagonist who is a street beggar, and he starts off killing rats for money in a sewer and he dreams of becoming a pirate to escape his poverty underneath the military regime that are occupying his lands. FF14 i got no clue on because ARR is so boring but smarter people than me have explained reasonings in that one. Final Fantasy has such deep roots in politics people dont even notice lmao
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Sarcasm. Final Fantasy is pretty political in most games. Hell, in the most popular one, 7, you're an eco terrorism group.
Just wanna say, Fang and Vanille from XIII were definitely a couple.
In the Final Fantasy sub there is currently a shockingly long comment chain arguing straight up Sappho and Her Friend shit re: Fang and Vanille If one of them was a man would you have *any* fucking doubt that they're banging? God damn, people
Some people have always been like that about XIII. "No, you see, in Japan girls can be very close friends sometimes, stop trying to make everyone gay!" If the characters don't look at the camera and announce they're gay, then people are just looking for things that aren't there. And then when characters do look at the camera and announce they're gay, these same people get mad because "ew, why are you shoving your agenda down my throat?"
Like, on one hand yeah, I think shippers can be irritating and not every relationship needs to be romantic/sexual (though I believe the fluidity of art allows for basically any reading so I don't think shippers are *wrong*, just an annoying byproduct of capital lettered Fandoms that make discourse impossible). On the other hand there are times when it is *absolutely clear* in the subtext that two characters are romantically linked and you either need to have legendarily low media literacy or to have just never seen two people in love in your life to insist otherwise, and XIII *really* exposes this other hand in ways that I didn't think possible. FF has never been a super queer series (no, the Honeybee Inn segment in VII was pure Gay Panic comic relief in the OG) but Fang+Vanille in XIII and Ryne+Gaia in XIV are the most blunt-force-obvuious lesbian relationships I've seen in gaming that don't include explicit scissoring. Hoes just mad that Fang Mommy doesn't want to step on *them*
I wish the next lesbian pairing just straight up kiss every each other in full HD cutscene just to piss off people.
I don’t think I’d agree that FF isn’t super queer. In terms of JRPGs specifically, I’d say it’s probably one of the queerest franchises. Specifically look at how overwhelmingly camp and queer FFX-2 is, and you can easily view FFXV very compellingly under a queer lens. VIIR obviously has the amazing honeybee scene, and all three XIII games either explicitly feature gay romance or are camp AF.
See also: Ryne and Gaia in XIV
You mean the central figures of the raid series that borrows heavily from VIII? The one that explicitly centers the romance between the two leads, was marketed as a romance, with a smash hit love ballad, and the two lovers embracing in the game's logo? No way. They're just Really Good Friends!
With the [cutscene that's literally a shot for shot remake of a het romance scene from FFVIII but with a giant rainbow crystal?](https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1338391598468513792?lang=en#m) Oh my god, they were roommates.
Im so jealous of that goth girls fit ughh, the platforms??? My godd her girlfriend is so lucky
The goth girl also has a giant hammer just thought you'd like to know
I remember getting downvoted like crazy for stating the obvious. They pose in front of a giant rainbow while the love theme from FFVIII plays. I think it threatens some self-proclaimed allies that LGBTQ characters aren't just included or window dressing, but central.
And then they tell you about the cute date they went on. Some people would refuse to get it even if Gaia stenciled "We Are Lesbians" on her hammer and hit them in the face with it while kissing Ryne.
I think they DO get it and they're mad about it.
In general I agree but when it comes to liberal allies trying to rules-lawyer the queerness out of Ryne and Gaia I think it stems more from XIV being largely sexless. The only character that I can buy has ever fucked is Thancred and even then that ship sailed years ago because he's been too hung up on the fact that Minfillia died before getting the chance to say "you're like a brother to me". The game does everything it can to keep the Scions single with no romantic interests at all beyond the player character (with G'raha being obsessed with you and Alisaie poorly hiding a crush, covering two bases by giving you a man and woman fawning over you), so I suspect certain fans just can't grapple with the fact that their favorite cute angelic 16 year old fell for somebody other than your self-insert
It's more than that, it's that the confirmed relationship is same sex. Opposite sex relationships aren't well represented in the canon. Being in the minority in a single work of fiction is intolerable for many dweebs.
This is also why they try desperately to see Runar/Y'shtola being anything more than an unrequited crush from his end and even try to equate it to Gaia/Ryne.
You may be on to something but I haven't seen anything indicating as such personally. Maybe it's because I'm straight and therefore less sensitive/aware of things like that and I could just be offering too much benefit of the doubt to whiners on the internet, but personally I think more people deny their obvious relationship because basically every single conversation across like 500 hours of dialogue is centered around how you are just the best, super coolest awesomest best-at-everythingest person ever in the history of Eorzea and every good thing in everybody's life is attributed to your stunning perfection always and forever, and the fact that precisely one and only one character ultimately finds her happiness elsewhere feels like a slight to those people who now feel entitled to uncritical adoration thanks to all that shit. So basically we agree that dorks routinely whitewash the obvious queer relationship but don't quite see eye to eye on specifically why that is, lol.
The absolute worst type of this is liberal rules-lawyering is suggesting that noticing Ryne and Gaia's obvious but also extremely PG queerness is sexualizing minors.
*angry lightning noises*
I think this is about Fangrai but it's funny to think Lightning is homophobic instead
🤔
Lightning has strong homophobic homosexual vibes.
Lightning "gayest homophobe around" Farron, for suree
/uj if ff16 protagonist doesnt have unskippable sweaty raw gay sex on screen for a minimum of 600 hours as part of the main questline I am boycotting it
With quick time events! Fail one and start again at foreplay
\*CINEMATIC NUT\*
ROTATE THE STICKS FOR THAT HELICOPTER DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!
Your minimum is only 1% off the main quest? Getting some homophobic vibes tbh.
Now hold on let's not jump to conclusions, I have sex with my boyfriend every night, ill edit it to fix it
I love that this is the /uj take
me too
at this point it might just happen. square enix has been so thirsty for new customer demographics that they straight up turned FF15's cast into an idol boy band. when they say LGBTQ+ there's a 100% chance they mean man on man, ass to ass.
SQEX is a funny abreviation
How are new squares made?
THEY GOING WOKE NOW WATCH THEM GO BROKE, CHOO-CHOO! NO GAY PEOPLE IN MY TWINK FANTASY WORLD BITCH!
FYI to those who aren't familiar, the director of XVI directed the critically acclaimed MMORPG XIV. He has spoken about witnessing discrimination against a young trans person, how it made him feel, and that he wants to use his stories to advance equality as far as business interests permit. In XIV there are two zones, in two different expansions, filled almost exclusively with gender nonbinary characters who use the singular 'they'. For a year, the endgame content was centered on the relationship between two queer-coded female characters, with the reward at the end being a scene of the two of them embracing in front of a giant rainbow. The most recent Valentine's Day event was a short story about the friendship between a gender-nonconforming girl and her feminine friend, neither of which could last a day in each other's shoes. Hell, one of the protagonists of FFV back in 1992 was an FTM crossdresser! So anyone who says queer content doesn't belong in Final Fantasy is fibbing.
That is genuinely so so cool. I would've never known this. Really good on the director Edit: adding some more. I don't know if another game has really done stuff like that. Also, with all the Hogwarts stuff. I am non-binary which I think falls under the Trans umbrella, so it really feels good to see a major game put their foot down like this. I've been really excited for FFXVI since it's first trailer so I am a happy person.
Wait two zones? One is il mheg, and the other?
Would be a spoiler for Endwalker, so we won't go into detail here.
I've completed endwalker but don't recall that, I'm not sure if it went over my head are you talking about >!the Omicrons in Ultima Thule!<
love Yoshi-P and his game design philosophy. Only wish is that he would get a little better about race issues cause we've seen that be a problem with him recently
I haven’t been interested in FF in over a decade, but I think you single-handedly got me looking forward to checking out XVI.
And just like that, gamers wanted censorship in games again.
“Don’t censor our games…unless it’s gay, of course.”
It's about conforming to their reality. They only preach what conforms their own perception of reality.
Can they retroactively make Cloud gay? And a bottom?
He already is, he got topped by Zach and got cucked by Sephi when he topped Aerith
Nailed it, I know. Thank you; moving on.
what do you mean "retroactively"
No gay secks in FF7 😔
They can keep Cloud, give us the daddy Barret. Throw in Dyne being his exboyfriend, make it a whole fucking plotline.
As if he's not already both of those things
I’d say Bisexual and a closeted drag queen.
Didn't you go in the Group room? I went in the group room.
I guess the real final fantasy is queer folks existing along the way.
Wow that's cool. I hope they don't come up with a comicly terrible reason as to why there aren't any poc in the game
I never played any FF title but I thought there was a very muscular black guy in FF7 or something. Also "I AM GOING TO DEFEAT CHAOS" game has a black guy in it. Also I'm really curious about their "reason" to not include any POC characters. Can you tell me that?
That very muscular black guy's name is Barret, he's an ecoterrorist, and he is canonically right about everything.
There's also Sazh from FF13, but I know nothing about hin beyond his existence and I think he's a dad???
Sazh is not just a dad. He's THE Dad.
Is that the guy with the chocobo in his hair?
Yeah.
Haha nice. A friend of mine said I reminded him of that dude cuz I took a picture of my cat in my hair, had a bit of an afro at the time
> I thought there was a very muscular black guy in FF7 Yup, Barret. He was a pretty caricatural "Mr. T" character and, let's be honest, gorilla-esque in his behavior (chest beating and all...) FF7 Remake's version of him is more sensible in that regard. > Also I'm really curious about their "reason" to not include any POC characters Basically, the producer said that FF16's world is "rooted in reality", hence why this fantasy medieval world will be less diverse than ~~the actual medieval England it's based on~~ modern day Earth.
Oh wow. When I played original ff7 I coded his behaviour as hyper machismo with limited expressive resources so as to give the gruff outside sincere inside trope, I didn't even think to see it that way.
Basically because they want it "to be accurate to historical medieval Europe"
Ah yes, historical medieval Europe, with its horse-size riding chickens and wars decided by which side had the more powerful monster-summoning wizard.
The Japanese development team somehow thought people of African descent hadn't migrated to Europe during the medieval period. An assumption they probably should have googled. If it makes you feel any better, they didn't include anybody from their own continent either.
Lmao "moorish" and "saracen" characters are a thing in medieval literature, even in arthurian romance. You see them just hanging around, doing knightly things after converting to christianity. I'm pretty sure they are based on actual africans and middle easterners who decided to convert and live in Medieval Europe. Sure Medieval Europe wasn't a highly cosmopolite place but that doesn't mean there were literally zero people from other regions of the world.
/uj It's extra galling because some of the cultures in XVI are clearly inspired by Middle-Eastern cultures, but nooooo we can't have non-white people because Europe.
Smh why do you wanna play political all the time smh my shaking head h
Oh man if I'd have known all my Lalafell lesbian ERPing in FFXIV was going to bleed into the rest of the games I never would have done it. My bad guys. 
Aren't lalafells whole thing about being child-like? And you ERP as one? 😬😬😬😬😬
Like only a based gamer can. UJ: I don't actually erp as anything. But I always thought Lalafells were more like little people than children. I never understood why everyone sees them that way.
The more you play FFXIV and interact with Lala characters, the less you see them as childlike.
I only played to like level ten or something, but my starting zone was in the Lalafell desert city. I didn't get super deep into the story, but I seem to remember it being about a group of scheming businessmen Lalafell scamming their way into a coup. So I never stopped thinking they looked ridiculous, but I never saw them as childlike.
It's like the 9000 years old vampire. Sure, Lolorito, you're a cunning business man with more blood in your hands than gold in your pockets, but you still look like a 4 years old boy with a fake mustach. Lalafell may be the most mentally adults of all races in the game, they still look like children in the end. Plus, as someone that actually does eRP ingame, I find that the only players interested in Lalafell are because they're short, flat, cute and innocent looking, not because they're scheming mastermind ready to burn the country for a smidge of power...
Hard to agree when they make a toddler high chair labeled "lallafell chair" lol
TIL chairs are characters
They're little people but they look so fucking baby like it's hard to justify them being sexualized at all
Lalafell look like the old sprites from the 90s, but sure, go off. Yes there are some sketchy lalafell, but you'll see more questionable underaged looking min height miqo or au ra in your average CT runs that you do sketch lalafell in the wild
Rare Square Enix W last time they had one of those for me is when the Guardians of the Galaxy game came out which I consider it one of the best superhero games out there along with the Arkham series and the insomniac Spider-Man series and then they sold the studio that made it decreasing the chance of a sequel so that was a massive L
Legit, Guardians of the Galaxy was so good. I wish more people would play it, but I think the Avengers game put people off trying it.
It also unfortunately sold like shit so chances of a sequel were always going to be minimal
I'm sure the Twitter replies and QRTs are a trash fire, but at least the FF sub is being mostly cool about it.
>FFXVI feats LGBT characters Well done Square Enix! Hopefully Atlus is next. We need LGBT romance options in the next Persona.
Final Fantasy finally catching up to NieR and Dragon Quest.
Wait the dude in cover dates men? Rare Square Enix W
Many many neckbeards will be turding their unwashed, shit-streaked underpants over this
They shorten it to SQEX?
Squecks
literally g\*mer genocide
Civil conversation in this sub?
But isn't the same person creating the game not adding blacks because it ruins his immersion or some shit?
While the explanation is a bit iffy I really doubt there's any racism intended, especially considering ff14 is a thing
Nah, too late. Yoshi-P is literally Hitler.
Dude, don't act like the FFXIV fandom ain't thirsty for Thunderhead.
Gamers are not oppressed, but they honestly should be. Just to teach them some empathy.
Not censoring content is based
As if Final Fantasy hasn't been queer-bait LGBTQ content for a generation now.
Shit, if they keep making decisions like this I might just have to forgive them for the NFT bullshit.
Yessss gay stuff
If that really is true and there is gay content in my favourite gaming series, I'm gonna have a full on sobbing moment. Fuck everything happening right now but in a way we are still moving forward.
Who r the gays?? Can Clive be gay 😱🙏
Based se
unbelievably based if true.
I wanted the game from before...but now? I WANT THE DEFINITIVE EDITION
HOLD THE FUCK UP, SQUARE IS BASED? I thought they were going downhill with the CEO being obsessed with NFTs, or is that a different studio?
This game is run by a board member, but the rest of the board and former CEO seem to have gone nuts. It’s what happens when all the leadership are business majors instead of programmers, writers, and others within the company that showed leadership skills.
ah, so a certain subset of square is based. here's to hoping whatever bullshit befalls square as a result of it's current.crazy business decisions ends up with this guy in charge, because holy fuck it would be hilarious to just point at square every time some weeb brought up "muh holy japanese masterpieces that avoid wokeness"
Square was the only studio to pick up Life is Strange. The other publishers demanded queer content be removed by switching the gender of the protagonist.
Rare Yoshi-P dub. Hopefully he doesn’t have any weird takes about PoC in the same setting or accessibility…
Rare? Lmao aight
As someone who loves FFXIV, yeah. Dude has had some weird at best and downright offensive at worst takes surrounding FF16, and it’s honestly just made me look at some of his contributions to FFXIV in a completely different light.
Japanese corporate culture and Japan more broadly has some problematic takes on race. Knew some people who went over there to teach and the depictions of black people children are allowed to get away with are disturbing (again, just accounts I’ve heard from friends I didn’t see them myself).
I wouldn’t be surprised. Haven’t been there or seen any of it firsthand myself, but what you’re describing aligns with what I’ve heard. I think what frustrates me the most about Yoshi-P ignoring race representations is that this new setting (forgot what it’s called, lost interest in ff16 as soon as it was revealed to be a DMC clone) is that it seems obviously inspired by Ivalice from FF12/Tactics, and Yoshi-P just seems too dense to realize how large the multicultural aspect of Ivalice was. As well as just the general ahistorical view that Medieval Europe was all white people (Moors? Never heard of them). Don’t even get me started on the gross accessibility gatekeeping lol
I understand the frustration there. I’d be careful of the monkey’s paw in this instance. It’s actually hard for people to tastefully address diversity in fictional media imo. Harder still when you don’t have access to such diverse experiences in your personnel. Hell, just look at some of the more… problematic POC representations in anime if you want some examples of Japanese companies struggling to portray races that aren’t Caucasian or Japanese. Seems Square Enix and Yoshi-P are bringing in more diverse viewpoints on gender/sexuality and I’m glad they are doing so, but it’s going to take a heck of a lot more work for an older and larger Japanese studio like Square to talk about race in a non cringe manner.
That’s fair. I’m not saying that FF was ever GOOD about racial representation, but it was there in the later games. I think some of the more recent FF games approached the matter in a more nuanced way. Barrett was great in FF7:R, Sazh was good all the way back in 2009, even Yoshi-P’s own FFXIV is pretty great with the matter (mostly). FF12 did a fantastic job of showcasing a multiethnic society. So it just feels like a step back. I do think it’s interesting that no one has addressed the ableism aspect of Yoshi-P’s comments. I imagine that is harder to defend.
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Squenix based?
rare square W
Based square enix
I could be very wrong, but don't some of those countries require it to be censored? Like they won't allow the game if its not censored?
Correct. Square Enix doing this is them being willing to trade being banned in those regions in exchange for good press about not censoring queer stuff.
I fucking hate this, not talking about the Lgbt part, I just hate Final Fantasy.
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It will be ported to PC one day. Maybe not the first day that Sony's exclusivity deal ends.
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 gay people in my vidya?????
What about the chinese release?
They won't censor it in the Middle East? Interesting
I’m sure this will end well….
No funny lil lock award yet at least
Great I hope i could buy it too
Yoooo thats fucking awesome.