I live in Athens, it’s absolutely not the south. It’s Appalachia. I wouldn’t even call West Virginia “the south”. Appalachia is unique, and stretches from Alabama to New York, so clearly it isn’t all southern
I really don't understand why people associate WV with the South.
The state was literally formed because the seceded from Virginia over them joining the Confederacy...
It’s because a place can have political, geographic, and cultural classifications.
My input is that while WV and southeast OH are not geographically very southern, they do have southern Appalachian culture - but it’s important to note that this is distinct from Deep South, coastal south, etc. The culture is not aligned to the midwest and certainly not aligned to the north. The south is a big place, so it can be easily divided into separate cultural groups with their own dialects and so on.
Despite WV splitting from VA back in 1863, the culture is still not like the northern Appalachia of PA or NY (the secession was mostly because VA was using huge numbers of slaves in agriculture, and WV, which doesn’t have much farmland in the mountains and hence had very few slaves, [did not feel appropriately represented in legislature](https://virginiahistory.org/learn/why-there-west-virginia)).
As a person who lives right across the river from South Point, OH and goes there routinely for errands, I can say with total confidence that the southernmost parts of Ohio would predominately identify closer with southern culture than they would midwest or northern culture.
I enjoy this topic so I think I got a little carried away on this reply.
I'm at the northern end of Appalachian Ohio, and geographic transition in culture pretty well maps onto the line of furthest glacial advance. Feels very Appalachian below, and very rust belt Midwestern above.
As someone who lives along the river and can look out my back window and see WV, I agree. I see West Virginians all the time raising the confederate flag and I’m like “has your education system failed you so badly you forgot your own history?”
The Rebel flag isn't necessarily displayed to support the Confederacy. It gained a "rebellious" connotation disconnected from it in the 70's. Think Dukes of Hazard
The Dukes of Hazzard has nothing to do with crazy rednecks claiming "heritage" when they are flying the "Rebel flag". They clearly don't know anything about the civil war and they didn't get the idea from Dukes of Hazzard, they got the idea from misinformation and an education system that improperly teaches the civil war. Dukes of Hazzard also didn't just pick a random battle standard to put on the car they picked something popular and recognizable in the south (where the show is set) look into the history of the flag and you'll see that Dukes of Hazzard took from it's popularity not the other way around.
Have you ever lived there? Outside of Wheeling/Charleston/Huntington they all think they're fighting for the Confederacy still.
Even in those cities you'll find some crazies. Glad I got out.
It definitely feels geographically different than the rest of the state. Cincinnati actually has terrain, unlike Columbus, Cleveland, or Toledo.
But it's still a very German and Irish City, which is more like the upper Midwest and northeast than like the South.
You forget about Kentucky though, there’s Definitely heavy Appalachian influence from the southeast corner all the way up and west through Newark/Heath area, but more southwest of Columbus you start feeling more influences of the south I feel like.
If we want to be technical it is a dissected plateau. Which formed from erosion of the Appalachian plateau, which is connected to the Appalachian mountains. So, it was a mountain building event that led to southeast Ohio’s topography
You probably enjoy telling kids Santa isn't real. I'm off to take a picture of the sunset over a Sheetz parking lot and declare it the 8th Wonder of the Midwest. Good day sir !
All 8 kids that i claim are mine still believe, just because one of them is 37 years old means nothing. But yes you are correct the kids I do not claim I enjoy informing of the truth of the one who calls hims saint Nicholas.
This is what it has been since the formation of the country. At the turn of the 19th century, Ohio was the gateway to the western frontier. Have you ever noticed how our county lines are a bit jagged compared to states immediately west? Ohio was hastily surveyed as part of the rush to colonize the frontier, and different expeditions used different baselines in surveying. After Ohio was settled, surveying was standardized for the rest of the western states. We were basically the testbed for US westward expansion.
You’re absolutely right, but you’re also kinda wrong. Kentucky was the “testbed” for western expansion in the sense you create Ohio to be. The formation of Kentucky county, Virginia and it’s development by immigrants, veterans, and natives was the first westward expansion of the thirteen colonies.
Look at Ohio’s county lines compared to Kentucky’s county lines. Kentucky has twice as many counties based on natural boundaries such as water sheds and hills. In the creation of these counties there was INSANE amounts of overlaying parcels on surveying maps as these areas were surveyed by anyone willing to travel that far out into the unknown, native territory; whether they were a trained surveyor or not. Because of this, the federal government enacted the Land Ordinance of 1785, creating the rectangular grid like counties we see all over Ohio and the western US.
Some interesting historical aspects to look into (and my support mod argument): Land Ordinance of 1785, Transylvania Purchase, the Treaty of Sycamore Shoals, Fort Boonesboro
Grew up in Akron. Asshole former friend of mine had a Confederate flag in his basement. Told me it was ok because his family came from West Virginia. Motherfucker that state only came into being so they could remain in the Union.
Edit to add: this particular specimen came from the Kenmore neighborhood of Akron. Which if you guys are familiar with that area…. Yeah.
I live just below u in Dover. We have that idiot infamous bounty hunter buried down the road. I forget his name but someone put the confederate flag there.
How are people seriously that stupid? Did they not bother to Google "was Ohio a confederate state"? And then they say "it's heritage, not hate" well it's clearly not your heritage dude bc you're from the north 💀
As a southerner that moved to central Ohio, the regularity I’ve seen confederate flags has been has been jaw dropping. There’s not a reason for them anywhere, but I didn’t think I’d be seeing them up here. I didn’t really see them that much in the south like they’re flown up here.
Edit: spelling error
I grew up here and I'm just as baffled. Proudly claiming a "heritage" that was fought for to preseve human rights violations, had the lifespan of a hedgehog and your home state actively fought against. I don't get it.
they know it's perceived as racist, and it signals to other like minded individuals they're not alone in their beliefs.
some think it scares black people away (probably some are) others just like to be passive aggressive dicks
i've asked a few people why they had them over the last few years and those are some of the answers i got.
there’s 100% a southern influence in southern Ohio. yes historically the boundary between the south and north.
but to say there’s no overlap is silly. Cincinnati doesn’t feel like a midwest city and way more closer to Kentucky’s culture. There’s even a noticeable twang
and Southeast Ohio is basically West Virginia
it’s not extreme. but it is there.
Tell someone from KY or TN that Cincinnati is in the south and you'll be laughed at. Only people upstate think that. I moved to the NKY burbs for a bit and was an outcast because I was from the north. There are people 5 miles south of the river who refuse to cross it.
Cincinnati is not the south.
This subject has come up before. The Midwest includes Ohio. It's a large region. Are there differences between new England states? Within the states? You could do this with any state in any region. Buffalo isn't NYC. Pittsburgh isn't Philly. Jacksonville isn't Miami.
I’m from Eastern Ky bordering on WV and I would consider Southeast Ohio, Eastern to Mid Ky and WV to be Appalachian. Really some beautiful country and wonderful people but also a lot of racism.
i think these regions (the midwest, the south) don’t have strict boundaries and it’s interesting to see where these cultural boundaries actually intersect. they do cross borders and aren’t fixed.
i wouldn’t consider Jacksonville and Miami the same region. Jacksonville would be a southern Atlantic city similar to a Savannah and South Carolina. Where Miami is basically a Latin America or the Caribbean.
maybe people would laugh but there is some truth it to. cultures don’t strictly follow state borders
They aren’t, they were neutral during the war because they couldn’t even agree. South of Lexington is definitely the south but Louisville and northern Kentucky are just as “southern” as Cincinnati or St. Louis.
I like to refer to the River cities because I think Cincy, Pittsburg, Louisville etc all have more in common than any of those cities do with a place like Cleveland or Toledo
Exactly. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toledo, Cleveland, Rochester, Buffalo, and Philly are more in common with each other. They are “rust belt” post-industrial cities. Similarly, Columbus and Indianapolis are typical Midwestern corn-growing cities. And Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, and Athens are all more Appalachian.
So many people from KY. back in the day Cincinnati was the destination for many families coming out of the mountains to find work that it definitely changed the demographics of the region
A fair amount of the state is south of the Mason-Dixon Line . . .
I still wouldn’t actually consider it part of the South, though. Parts could be Appalachia. But overall, I say Ohio is Midwestern.
I grew up in NW Ohio, most definitely Midwest. I now live in Kentucky, right on the Oh WV border. I work in the most soithern poimt of ohio, definitely Appalachia/not quite southern.
Ohio is the Midwest. The Midwest is a diverse region, of course and the Great Lakes portion of it is quite different from for example the Midwestern areas that border on the Plains, like Iowa. Ohio is also a quite internally diverse state. But that's true of every Midwestern state to some degree--for example, the UP of Michigan and Detroit seem like different worlds and there is little historically and culturally that links Chicago and downstate Illinois. Even more than other regions, the Midwest is defined by its in-between character.
No one from the Northeast thinks of Ohio as a Northeastern state. No one from the South thinks of Ohio as a Southern state. Don't overthink it: Ohio is part of the Midwest.
Southern and Southeastern Ohio are most definitely Appalachian in culture. Most of the residents in that area share more in common with West virginia and Kentucky.
I’m from Marietta, and I don’t consider that part of the state the Midwest, it’s Appalachia . Columbus is def Midwest. Cleveland feels like the rust belt, and Cincinnati feels like upland south. It’s a state that doesn’t feel like it has a defined region.
I agree about SE OH being Appalachia. I live in Hocking County and spend most of my days working in Athens, Meigs, and Gallia counties, so that's Ohio to me. Definitely Appalachian.
I’m from Meigs county and lived in Toledo for 7 years. It’s incredibly different and it’s difficult to describe to locals of NW Ohio that only think of SE Ohio as beautiful hocking hills or Ohio University. It is geographically beautiful, but it’s a hard place to live and grow up in.
I agree. I've lived in Columbus and Cleveland- and they have vastly different vibes. Columbus feels like a city that sprung up out of a cornfield. Cleveland reminds me more of Pittsburgh, Chicago and Detroit.
No. It's a regional name given by the US Census. https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/economic-census/guidance-geographies/levels.html#par_textimage_34
All this talk about rust belts and Appalachia is just ignorant conflating of terms. Which taxonomy are you using?
You must be from the part of the state north of Columbus. I’ve lived in Dayton and Cincinnati my entire life (other than my 4 years of college in Indiana) and can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen Lake Erie. Ohio is 100% midwestern down here (corn fields and all!)
I live in Cleveland and moved here from Dallas. My daughter lives in Santa Fe, NM.
After my wife and I relocated here, my daughter remarked that we live in "damn near Canada." And she's right :-)
National Geographic and the Census Bureau [have defined this for you.](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/united-states-regions) And some other gov agencies along with Reddit have helped cut this map into further [sub segments for you.](https://vividmaps.com/regions-united-states/)
I recommend maps under the Cultural segments from u/gtorres888 or u/Aijol107 or u/G8g8g8
Then I suggest you bookmark this post when this comes up again in two years.
I think a lot of Ohio qualifies for Midwest—at least in feeling—basically once you get south of Mansfield toward Columbus, everything feels “Midwestern” in geography. Flat, etc.
Further south, as many have already said feels very much more Appalachian.
I grew up in Northeast Ohio and that entire area feels Great Lakes or part of the rust belt. Growing up, no one ever really associated themselves with “Midwest”…once I moved to Mansfield there was a pretty notable difference in feeling and association.
Ohio is a tough one to pin down, but I do love the chameleon/shape shifting the state can do at times.
As someone who grew up on the "north coast" I agree with you. Ohio does start to vibe differently a lot further north than most assume. I think Mansfield is a good "pin" for where that starts when headed south.
Depends where you’re at. In Cleveland here, I feel much more close to a Great Lakes person than a midwesterner, especially after living in Chicago. But if your in Findlay that feels like the Midwest and if your in Ironton it may as well be Appalachia. Same goes for areas near Cincy feel a lot more Kentucky. Unique state that we really have 4 different areas
Northern Ohio is Great Lakes
Southeast is Appalachia
West and Central is Midwest
Cincinnati is only technically part of Ohio and a mix of Midwest/Southern/Appalachia
You are definitely not from southwest Ohio then.
Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Louisville are all very much rust belt cities. You don’t hit the south culturally outside of pockets until you hit Lexington, KY
I grew up and still live in Cincinnati. To compare the culture of Cincinnati and Louisville to Pittsburgh is laughably inaccurate.
What high school did you go to?
I’m also from Toledo (North Point-two blocks from the water treatment facility).
Whatever else we might be Great Lakes is the one I mostly associate us with.
Midwest for sure. Not that I feel like we have a ton in common with states all the way out west like Kansas or Nebraska, but we aren't southern, we aren't northeastern, and we definitely aren't western. Ohio is considered part of the midwest in the US census regions so I just go with that. Personally though, I feel like the most similar state to us (northeast Ohio at least) is Pennsylvania. But they definitely aren't midwest.
I was born in Canton, 10 years in Toledo and live in Cincy now. I’d say the major cities feel more like the east coast with Cincy being a blend of north & south. Smaller cities like Fremont feel like the Midwest.
Fun fact that surprise people: Ohio is the most urban state per area with over 50% of residents living in a major metro area.
I grew up in Cincinnati and remember people saying Cincinnati is the biggest city in Kentucky. After living in other parts of Ohio thru the years I see some truth to it
Unfortunately, I get where the sentiment comes from. I can't argue against it seeing the not-too-uncommon Ohio plate F-150's with confederate flag rear windshields, but I will say the overall cinci-dayton corridor is more mixed than a lot of people give it credit for. We've got a ton of colleges and businesses, but we've also got a lot of farmland and southern larpers..
OH has more in common with Pennsylvania and the east than most midwest states, which is why many outside of OH consider it to be the western most of the east states.
It seems people from OH want to be included in the midwest, but the rest of the midwest considers them east.
I’m from Cuyahoga and I consider our region to be the Northeast since we have a lot in common with other NE states, plus we get enough snow to be one! 🥲
Midwest except for the fact some smaller communities believe they're part of the confederacy (aka the south) and it will "rise again". Think rural, high Republican, high poverty but also higher retirement level seems to be a part of it too.
Ohio is the midwest and the northeast. Definitely not the south no matter how many rebel flags are hanging off pickup trucks. /s
Edit: Added the /s for those who have no sense of humor
Ohio is the midwest, always has been. I've seen more people question this in the past year than I have in the prior 51 I've been alive combined. What is driving this all of the sudden?
Ohio is a little bit Midwest, a little bit Great Lakes, a little bit rust belt, and a little bit Appalachian. It is by no means southern. Do not confuse Appalachian with southern. Appalachian is a culture of its own. I saw this as an Ohioan who lives in the Appalachian part of the state (south eastern, Lawrence county)
I’m from Toledo and I 100% agree with OP. I never quite realized how “Michigan” we are until my daughter moved to Cincinnati and I started spending more time there. I’ve even been told I have a Michigan accent, whatever that is lol
i just moved to texas and i’m noticing that i have a “toledo accent” when i talk
i said “ope im sorry to someone” and the way i pronounced sorry is like sæorry
Yeah, I swear that when you’ve lived here your whole life, you can almost tell what side of town someone is from by how they talk. I’m from the east side and I can usually spot another east sider lol. And I always joke with my husband that he has a north side accent haha!
There’s an old saying I heard…
“Anything south of Columbus might as well be Kentucky.”
That being said. Cincinnati is my home, and very much a northern city feel, but with some southern vibe.
I’ve been to Cleveland once, it’s definitely that Great Lakes, post industrial Midwest feel.
Columbus is cool, but I just dont get much creative energy there like I do from Cleveland or Cincinnati.
Dayton is trash, Toledo not much better.
Athens and on directly south you get a good Appalachia feel.
I have never spent any significant amount of time in eastern Ohio. IMO is almost east coast because it borders Pennsylvania.
This question was made for me lol my friends always laugh at me because I absolutely hate that we're associated with the Midwest. I understand it on some degree but I'd argue that where I'm from (Cleveland, Akron, generally NE Ohio) does not match at all the typical traits for the Midwest. Cleveland especially is basically an east coast city but with less people and fame. We have the exact same stuff every other major city does. My fiancé is from Connecticut and says that parts of NE Ohio look exactly like New England, especially in the western reserve area. I don't know much about the rest of ohio but I think the state is basically like 3 or 4 states in one 😂
I consider us to be the last state east of the Midwest. PA is considered the east coast, while KY/WV is considered to be the south.
I live in columbus and this area screams midwest. But going down to say, Hocking Hills, you go more towards the Appalachian Moutains, the more southern it feels, and less Midwest.
Southwest Ohio is NOT the south. But SE Ohio is definitely Appalachia.
Everything else is Midwest.
Even Kentucky is not the south, they just like to pretend they are so as not to be lumped in with Appalachia.
It cracks me up how you cross the Ohio River and people act like you’re in the south. Hell, even Florence has a big “Y’all” on a water tower.
I would say Ohio, as a whole, is Midwest, and overlaps or contains a number of subregions/cultures: parts of Appalachia, each city, the Lake region, the Ohio Valley is very much it’s own thing, etc.
I think, geologically, that we’re in the Appalachian Plateau…the eastern half of the state anyway.
That’s a a C in Geology talkin’ so feel free to blow me up.
Ohio has the 10th highest population density, mostly behind tiny New England states. This can make it difficult to say which region Ohio overall belongs to. Cincinnati "feels" like Kentucky. Cleveland is more similar to the East Coast in terms of infrastructure and culture. NW Ohio feels Midwest.
I grew up near Portsmouth in Scioto County, “Where Southern Hospitality Begins”. Whether it’s true or not a lot of Appalachians down that way identify as at least partly Southern. My gal is from Erie, PA, and she calls me Southern, which I find funny.
Toledo Ohio is basically Michigan, south of Toledo it starts to become not the mid west anymore. Overall Ohio seems to become whatever state it touches. The Ohio that touches PA is basically Appalachia. I was bear hunting with some good ole boys from Ohio in PA. Rather nice fellas but even they admitted there’s a difference in the folks of Ohio who are from the border with Michigan, the Indiana border, the Kentucky border. They didn’t have much to say about central Ohio folks forget the small town they were from though.
The Midwest is a wildly outdated term from many eons ago. Split it into the plains and the great lakes regions. Cleveland's peer cities are Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Milwaukee, and Detroit.
Columbus is definitely a plains city. It rhymes with Indianapolis, Kansas City, and Minneapolis.
Cincinnati is almost a southern riverboat city. It's peers include Nashville, St Louis, and Memphis.
So. None of the above. Ohio is 3+ regions in a trenchcoat pretending to be a state.
I'm from Marietta Ohio. A city in Washington County. It is in southeast Ohio. Marietta is the oldest city in Ohio, established in 1788. It's the first permanent settlement of the northwest territory. General Rufus Putnam founded the city, with a group of 48 revolutionary war veterans who followed him from New England. Cool fact Rufus Putnam is my 9th great grandfather. Marietta also has a portion of the underground railroad. Marietta is along the Ohio river just minutes from Parkersburg West Virginia which is known Confederacy, so the Putnam's and other citizens from Marietta helped slaves get here to be free. But to answer your question I wouldn't consider Ohio the northwest anymore. We call our area the mid-ohio valley. Southeast Ohio I would consider the Appalachia since we are so close to West Virginia.Most of Ohio I would consider the Midwest.
Used to call Ohio North Central or actually mid eastern when cleveland was far and away the biggest city
Dividing points South of Route 18 is the beginning of
Appalachia
Midwest
The cuyahoga river used to be the dividing line of east coast influenced
People east of there took 95 and vacationed on the Atlantic Coast
People West of the river vacationed on the West Coast
Now that dividing point is further west
Hard to say where
Rocky River ?
Black River ?
Depends on what part. Along the Ohio River is very southern, east side favors a New England style, Indiana line definitely Midwest, and North part is definitely Great Lakes.
This is a hill I will always personally die on. Ohio is mostly great lakes with the very SW corner becoming Midwest. The SE corner I would consider Appalachia. With the majority of the state being covered by deciduous forest until mass land clearing happened and the extreme abundance of fresh water, I would always consider it Great lakes region.
Now it also gets difficult with state lines not always filtering geographic traits.
South of 70, it’s the south or Appalachia, depending on whether you’re in southwest or southeast Ohio (if you’re JD Vance, all of southern Ohio is Appalachia.).
Northwest of 71 between Columbus and Cleveland is Midwest, IMO. East of 71 gets into Appalachia.
Central Ohio doesn’t really have any distinctive culture. It’s the country’s largest test market for that reason.
I'm sure culture will come with time, but Columbus feels so sterile and without a soul currently. I know a lot of people who live in Columbus, but not many who are from Columbus.
sidney here. i feel like we’re just shy of being able to call ourselves part of the midwest. we’re probably just right on the line between midwest and northeast. southern ohio could probably start being called the south, down by cincinnati & louisville.
Imagine all of America that defines an "American".
Take all of that, make it mediocre, and put it into a state.
That's Ohio. A miniature United States.
I think the whole region thing needs redefining. If you look at a map it doesn’t even make sense. Why Ohio would be the mid west? Ohio is more like the mid east. We’re not that close to the Mississippi River which essentially divides the country into east and west. The middle should probably be the states that border the river. The Midwest should probably be the states that are more west of the Mississippi.
I live in Athens, it’s absolutely not the south. It’s Appalachia. I wouldn’t even call West Virginia “the south”. Appalachia is unique, and stretches from Alabama to New York, so clearly it isn’t all southern
I once heard WV described as the farthest north of the South and the farthest south of the North
I really don't understand why people associate WV with the South. The state was literally formed because the seceded from Virginia over them joining the Confederacy...
It’s because a place can have political, geographic, and cultural classifications. My input is that while WV and southeast OH are not geographically very southern, they do have southern Appalachian culture - but it’s important to note that this is distinct from Deep South, coastal south, etc. The culture is not aligned to the midwest and certainly not aligned to the north. The south is a big place, so it can be easily divided into separate cultural groups with their own dialects and so on. Despite WV splitting from VA back in 1863, the culture is still not like the northern Appalachia of PA or NY (the secession was mostly because VA was using huge numbers of slaves in agriculture, and WV, which doesn’t have much farmland in the mountains and hence had very few slaves, [did not feel appropriately represented in legislature](https://virginiahistory.org/learn/why-there-west-virginia)). As a person who lives right across the river from South Point, OH and goes there routinely for errands, I can say with total confidence that the southernmost parts of Ohio would predominately identify closer with southern culture than they would midwest or northern culture. I enjoy this topic so I think I got a little carried away on this reply.
I'm at the northern end of Appalachian Ohio, and geographic transition in culture pretty well maps onto the line of furthest glacial advance. Feels very Appalachian below, and very rust belt Midwestern above.
As someone who lives along the river and can look out my back window and see WV, I agree. I see West Virginians all the time raising the confederate flag and I’m like “has your education system failed you so badly you forgot your own history?”
The Rebel flag isn't necessarily displayed to support the Confederacy. It gained a "rebellious" connotation disconnected from it in the 70's. Think Dukes of Hazard
The Dukes of Hazzard has nothing to do with crazy rednecks claiming "heritage" when they are flying the "Rebel flag". They clearly don't know anything about the civil war and they didn't get the idea from Dukes of Hazzard, they got the idea from misinformation and an education system that improperly teaches the civil war. Dukes of Hazzard also didn't just pick a random battle standard to put on the car they picked something popular and recognizable in the south (where the show is set) look into the history of the flag and you'll see that Dukes of Hazzard took from it's popularity not the other way around.
Yeah, you are not a rational person... Thank you for outing yourself so blatantly. It removed any hesitation I had about blocking you...
Have you ever lived there? Outside of Wheeling/Charleston/Huntington they all think they're fighting for the Confederacy still. Even in those cities you'll find some crazies. Glad I got out.
You also see the same idiots in Ohio.
That's where I am now (and where I was born). I've really only been in Columbus (north side) and Cleveland (west side) though and they aren't too bad.
Glad you got out man Huntington is the new Detroit sprinkled with crazy rednecks
Living in Huntington is the craziest thing, especially near the park. Million dollar homes are backyard neighbored with section 8 housing near Ritter.
And I think Huntington is an awesome city that’s really progressive for the area no doubt but it comes with a ton of crime.
I’ve heard the same thing about Cincinnati.
It definitely feels geographically different than the rest of the state. Cincinnati actually has terrain, unlike Columbus, Cleveland, or Toledo. But it's still a very German and Irish City, which is more like the upper Midwest and northeast than like the South.
You forget about Kentucky though, there’s Definitely heavy Appalachian influence from the southeast corner all the way up and west through Newark/Heath area, but more southwest of Columbus you start feeling more influences of the south I feel like.
Seems to start a little further north of Columbus to me, probably due to Columbus' sprawling geography.
yes i would agree. Athens is so beautiful with its mountains and hills. i didn’t even know Ohio had mountains like that
Those aren't mountains. They're big hills.
i’m from toledo. any remote elevation is a mountain to me
the 740 is def foothills of appalachia. its different from the rest of ohio.
Exactly, but not mountains
Its also called the Ohio Valley.
I’m from Cincinnati and didn’t know Ohio has mountains!!
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If we want to be technical it is a dissected plateau. Which formed from erosion of the Appalachian plateau, which is connected to the Appalachian mountains. So, it was a mountain building event that led to southeast Ohio’s topography
And NE Ohio until the last glaciation buried all the bedrock valleys some of which were over 200 feet deep.
Mt Pleasant, Mt Vernon, Mt Carmel Hospital. It has mountains and il die on this hill if you argue otherwise.
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Darn right , now disappear into the night dark stranger.
I'm sorry but just cause if you name the biggest hill from the ant hill a mountain, does not make it so.
You probably enjoy telling kids Santa isn't real. I'm off to take a picture of the sunset over a Sheetz parking lot and declare it the 8th Wonder of the Midwest. Good day sir !
All 8 kids that i claim are mine still believe, just because one of them is 37 years old means nothing. But yes you are correct the kids I do not claim I enjoy informing of the truth of the one who calls hims saint Nicholas.
According to the U.S. Census, Ohio is the easternmost Midwest state.
I consider Ohio as the gateway state to the Midwest.
This is what it has been since the formation of the country. At the turn of the 19th century, Ohio was the gateway to the western frontier. Have you ever noticed how our county lines are a bit jagged compared to states immediately west? Ohio was hastily surveyed as part of the rush to colonize the frontier, and different expeditions used different baselines in surveying. After Ohio was settled, surveying was standardized for the rest of the western states. We were basically the testbed for US westward expansion.
You’re absolutely right, but you’re also kinda wrong. Kentucky was the “testbed” for western expansion in the sense you create Ohio to be. The formation of Kentucky county, Virginia and it’s development by immigrants, veterans, and natives was the first westward expansion of the thirteen colonies. Look at Ohio’s county lines compared to Kentucky’s county lines. Kentucky has twice as many counties based on natural boundaries such as water sheds and hills. In the creation of these counties there was INSANE amounts of overlaying parcels on surveying maps as these areas were surveyed by anyone willing to travel that far out into the unknown, native territory; whether they were a trained surveyor or not. Because of this, the federal government enacted the Land Ordinance of 1785, creating the rectangular grid like counties we see all over Ohio and the western US. Some interesting historical aspects to look into (and my support mod argument): Land Ordinance of 1785, Transylvania Purchase, the Treaty of Sycamore Shoals, Fort Boonesboro
This might be the best description of Ohio I’ve ever seen.
My dude we are part of the country’s northern border. We are not part of the south
Are you sure about that? The copious amounts of Confederate flags I see in Clermont County indicate otherwise 😆
Ohio wasn’t even a border state tho, I’m guessing confederate flag ownership connects to high school drop out rate.
Weird how Ohio contributed the largest amount of Generals to the Union army. Especially ones with a legacy of torching any house flying that flag.
The blue jackets aren't about bees. It's because Ohio was the most anti confederate state!
Camp Chase not far from downtown Columbus has +2000 confederate soldiers buried.
EPA should clean that up by moving this waste to a southern state.
I wish this is what people were referring to when saying make America great again.
Torching Confederate flags is heritage.
And US Presidents.
Grew up in Akron. Asshole former friend of mine had a Confederate flag in his basement. Told me it was ok because his family came from West Virginia. Motherfucker that state only came into being so they could remain in the Union. Edit to add: this particular specimen came from the Kenmore neighborhood of Akron. Which if you guys are familiar with that area…. Yeah.
I live just below u in Dover. We have that idiot infamous bounty hunter buried down the road. I forget his name but someone put the confederate flag there.
If those people could read they'd be very upset.
There were a lot of Copperheads in Cincinnati. That part of the state was settled from Virginians moving up north.
Sounds about right lol.
How are people seriously that stupid? Did they not bother to Google "was Ohio a confederate state"? And then they say "it's heritage, not hate" well it's clearly not your heritage dude bc you're from the north 💀
From my experience, the people that fly these in general aren’t exactly critical thinkers.
As a southerner that moved to central Ohio, the regularity I’ve seen confederate flags has been has been jaw dropping. There’s not a reason for them anywhere, but I didn’t think I’d be seeing them up here. I didn’t really see them that much in the south like they’re flown up here. Edit: spelling error
I grew up here and I'm just as baffled. Proudly claiming a "heritage" that was fought for to preseve human rights violations, had the lifespan of a hedgehog and your home state actively fought against. I don't get it.
they know it's perceived as racist, and it signals to other like minded individuals they're not alone in their beliefs. some think it scares black people away (probably some are) others just like to be passive aggressive dicks i've asked a few people why they had them over the last few years and those are some of the answers i got.
I'd wager they are more for people stating their political affiliation because if you see one, then you're also likely to see a Trump flag.
There are people displaying them in both MI and MN. The guy in MI that tried to kidnap the Governor was nuts about the flag.
Well, it got him 16 years in jail, worked out ok IMO.
If that's the measure of the South, then parts of Canada qualify.
Those are racists not southerners anyone who waves that shit is a traitor
there’s 100% a southern influence in southern Ohio. yes historically the boundary between the south and north. but to say there’s no overlap is silly. Cincinnati doesn’t feel like a midwest city and way more closer to Kentucky’s culture. There’s even a noticeable twang and Southeast Ohio is basically West Virginia it’s not extreme. but it is there.
Tell someone from KY or TN that Cincinnati is in the south and you'll be laughed at. Only people upstate think that. I moved to the NKY burbs for a bit and was an outcast because I was from the north. There are people 5 miles south of the river who refuse to cross it. Cincinnati is not the south. This subject has come up before. The Midwest includes Ohio. It's a large region. Are there differences between new England states? Within the states? You could do this with any state in any region. Buffalo isn't NYC. Pittsburgh isn't Philly. Jacksonville isn't Miami.
I’m from Eastern Ky bordering on WV and I would consider Southeast Ohio, Eastern to Mid Ky and WV to be Appalachian. Really some beautiful country and wonderful people but also a lot of racism.
Cincinnati is a state of mind
I remember the race riots in the early 2000s now that neighborhood OTR is the definition of gentrification.
i think these regions (the midwest, the south) don’t have strict boundaries and it’s interesting to see where these cultural boundaries actually intersect. they do cross borders and aren’t fixed. i wouldn’t consider Jacksonville and Miami the same region. Jacksonville would be a southern Atlantic city similar to a Savannah and South Carolina. Where Miami is basically a Latin America or the Caribbean. maybe people would laugh but there is some truth it to. cultures don’t strictly follow state borders
I wouldn’t even call Kentucky the south
They aren’t, they were neutral during the war because they couldn’t even agree. South of Lexington is definitely the south but Louisville and northern Kentucky are just as “southern” as Cincinnati or St. Louis. I like to refer to the River cities because I think Cincy, Pittsburg, Louisville etc all have more in common than any of those cities do with a place like Cleveland or Toledo
3 out of 4 Kentuckians who fought in the Civil War wore blue.
Eh, Cleveland is a sibling to Pittsburgh. Not that either one would admit it. I know the Rust Belt isn't exactly the midwest, but it overlaps.
The rust belt is absolutely the Midwest
Exactly. Detroit, Pittsburgh, Toledo, Cleveland, Rochester, Buffalo, and Philly are more in common with each other. They are “rust belt” post-industrial cities. Similarly, Columbus and Indianapolis are typical Midwestern corn-growing cities. And Cincinnati, Louisville, Lexington, and Athens are all more Appalachian.
I have a friend from Tennessee that insists that Kentucky is not the South. I begged to differ.
So many people from KY. back in the day Cincinnati was the destination for many families coming out of the mountains to find work that it definitely changed the demographics of the region
A fair amount of the state is south of the Mason-Dixon Line . . . I still wouldn’t actually consider it part of the South, though. Parts could be Appalachia. But overall, I say Ohio is Midwestern.
I grew up in NW Ohio, most definitely Midwest. I now live in Kentucky, right on the Oh WV border. I work in the most soithern poimt of ohio, definitely Appalachia/not quite southern.
Do you pay state income taxes in the state you work in or the state you live in? I've always wondered how that works
According to the IRS I work in Cincinnati, Kentucky. Which sounds like a punchline
I pay kentucky state taxes. But I pay local taxes for certain cities.
Hello from the Huntington-Ashland suburb part of Ohio!
Ashland myself!!! Work in Lawrence though.
Proctorville, work in Lincoln.
I have driven past you at least twice then lol
Ohio is the Midwest. The Midwest is a diverse region, of course and the Great Lakes portion of it is quite different from for example the Midwestern areas that border on the Plains, like Iowa. Ohio is also a quite internally diverse state. But that's true of every Midwestern state to some degree--for example, the UP of Michigan and Detroit seem like different worlds and there is little historically and culturally that links Chicago and downstate Illinois. Even more than other regions, the Midwest is defined by its in-between character. No one from the Northeast thinks of Ohio as a Northeastern state. No one from the South thinks of Ohio as a Southern state. Don't overthink it: Ohio is part of the Midwest.
Southern and Southeastern Ohio are most definitely Appalachian in culture. Most of the residents in that area share more in common with West virginia and Kentucky.
Appalachia is not southern. Just cause they have a country accent doesn't make them southern.
So Ohio is not all Midwest. We are Appalachian as well.
Sure. It just sounded like you were disagreeing with the "Ohio is not southern" part.
Ohio IS the Midwest. There is no question.
I’m from Marietta, and I don’t consider that part of the state the Midwest, it’s Appalachia . Columbus is def Midwest. Cleveland feels like the rust belt, and Cincinnati feels like upland south. It’s a state that doesn’t feel like it has a defined region.
I agree about SE OH being Appalachia. I live in Hocking County and spend most of my days working in Athens, Meigs, and Gallia counties, so that's Ohio to me. Definitely Appalachian.
I’m from Meigs county and lived in Toledo for 7 years. It’s incredibly different and it’s difficult to describe to locals of NW Ohio that only think of SE Ohio as beautiful hocking hills or Ohio University. It is geographically beautiful, but it’s a hard place to live and grow up in.
I agree. I've lived in Columbus and Cleveland- and they have vastly different vibes. Columbus feels like a city that sprung up out of a cornfield. Cleveland reminds me more of Pittsburgh, Chicago and Detroit.
The Midwest thing has always seemed weird to me given how far East we are. I usually say Great Lakes Region.
well it’s a historical name. cause at one point this was very west for the country. we were “the middle of the west”
No. It's a regional name given by the US Census. https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/economic-census/guidance-geographies/levels.html#par_textimage_34 All this talk about rust belts and Appalachia is just ignorant conflating of terms. Which taxonomy are you using?
Yes I realize that, but it hasn’t been the case in a LONG time and geography is about more than the way places feel.
We're farther east than most of Georgia! And they border the ocean!
You must be from the part of the state north of Columbus. I’ve lived in Dayton and Cincinnati my entire life (other than my 4 years of college in Indiana) and can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen Lake Erie. Ohio is 100% midwestern down here (corn fields and all!)
Culturally its definitely midwest, maybe the southeast area could get thrown into appalachia
I was raised in Georgia, and as a newcomer to Ohio, this is nothing like the south. Definitely Midwest.
I live in Cleveland and moved here from Dallas. My daughter lives in Santa Fe, NM. After my wife and I relocated here, my daughter remarked that we live in "damn near Canada." And she's right :-)
National Geographic and the Census Bureau [have defined this for you.](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/united-states-regions) And some other gov agencies along with Reddit have helped cut this map into further [sub segments for you.](https://vividmaps.com/regions-united-states/)
I recommend maps under the Cultural segments from u/gtorres888 or u/Aijol107 or u/G8g8g8 Then I suggest you bookmark this post when this comes up again in two years.
Middle East
Sheikh DeWine shall lead the Middle West to a new age of prosperity, mashallah!
Pandering to oil and gas? Stripping women of rights? Dewine would blush if he heard you call him Sheikh.
Allahu Ak-ron!!
Firmly in the Midwest.
I think a lot of Ohio qualifies for Midwest—at least in feeling—basically once you get south of Mansfield toward Columbus, everything feels “Midwestern” in geography. Flat, etc. Further south, as many have already said feels very much more Appalachian. I grew up in Northeast Ohio and that entire area feels Great Lakes or part of the rust belt. Growing up, no one ever really associated themselves with “Midwest”…once I moved to Mansfield there was a pretty notable difference in feeling and association. Ohio is a tough one to pin down, but I do love the chameleon/shape shifting the state can do at times.
As someone who grew up on the "north coast" I agree with you. Ohio does start to vibe differently a lot further north than most assume. I think Mansfield is a good "pin" for where that starts when headed south.
I didn’t consider myself a Midwesterner until I moved out of the Midwest. Ohio is definitely in the Midwest culturally and regionally.
Depends where you’re at. In Cleveland here, I feel much more close to a Great Lakes person than a midwesterner, especially after living in Chicago. But if your in Findlay that feels like the Midwest and if your in Ironton it may as well be Appalachia. Same goes for areas near Cincy feel a lot more Kentucky. Unique state that we really have 4 different areas
Northern Ohio is Great Lakes Southeast is Appalachia West and Central is Midwest Cincinnati is only technically part of Ohio and a mix of Midwest/Southern/Appalachia
You are definitely not from southwest Ohio then. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Louisville are all very much rust belt cities. You don’t hit the south culturally outside of pockets until you hit Lexington, KY
Rust belt is a Midwest subculture.
I grew up and still live in Cincinnati. To compare the culture of Cincinnati and Louisville to Pittsburgh is laughably inaccurate. What high school did you go to?
Louisville does the high school shit too
I’m also from Toledo (North Point-two blocks from the water treatment facility). Whatever else we might be Great Lakes is the one I mostly associate us with.
Midwest for sure. Not that I feel like we have a ton in common with states all the way out west like Kansas or Nebraska, but we aren't southern, we aren't northeastern, and we definitely aren't western. Ohio is considered part of the midwest in the US census regions so I just go with that. Personally though, I feel like the most similar state to us (northeast Ohio at least) is Pennsylvania. But they definitely aren't midwest.
There needs to be a Great Lakes region
I was born in Canton, 10 years in Toledo and live in Cincy now. I’d say the major cities feel more like the east coast with Cincy being a blend of north & south. Smaller cities like Fremont feel like the Midwest. Fun fact that surprise people: Ohio is the most urban state per area with over 50% of residents living in a major metro area.
As someone from Cinci, I like saying y'all but being lumped in with the south offends me
I grew up in Cincinnati and remember people saying Cincinnati is the biggest city in Kentucky. After living in other parts of Ohio thru the years I see some truth to it
Unfortunately, I get where the sentiment comes from. I can't argue against it seeing the not-too-uncommon Ohio plate F-150's with confederate flag rear windshields, but I will say the overall cinci-dayton corridor is more mixed than a lot of people give it credit for. We've got a ton of colleges and businesses, but we've also got a lot of farmland and southern larpers..
All the people saying Cincinnati is south or Appalachia have never been to Cincinnati
I grew up in Appalachian Ohio on the river. I now live in Great Lakes Ohio.
OH has more in common with Pennsylvania and the east than most midwest states, which is why many outside of OH consider it to be the western most of the east states. It seems people from OH want to be included in the midwest, but the rest of the midwest considers them east.
Wtf. Midwest. Done.
Rustbelt, baby!
I live in the most northeastern part of the state. I never considered it the Midwest.
I'm from Wisconsin but live in Ohio now, my perspective is Ohio is Midwest but with some "southern" flair, especially since I'm in the Cincinnati area
I’m from Cuyahoga and I consider our region to be the Northeast since we have a lot in common with other NE states, plus we get enough snow to be one! 🥲
Ohio is Ohio
It is the start of the Midwest. If you call it flyover country🖕. Just because we have some hicks in spots doesn’t make it Southern either.
It’s the Midwest.
Midwest except for the fact some smaller communities believe they're part of the confederacy (aka the south) and it will "rise again". Think rural, high Republican, high poverty but also higher retirement level seems to be a part of it too.
Midwest
Ohio is the midwest and the northeast. Definitely not the south no matter how many rebel flags are hanging off pickup trucks. /s Edit: Added the /s for those who have no sense of humor
When looking at a map you might be tempted to think Ohio isn’t Midwest, but 5 minutes physically in that state and all your doubts will wash away.
Ohio is the midwest, always has been. I've seen more people question this in the past year than I have in the prior 51 I've been alive combined. What is driving this all of the sudden?
Ohio is a little bit Midwest, a little bit Great Lakes, a little bit rust belt, and a little bit Appalachian. It is by no means southern. Do not confuse Appalachian with southern. Appalachian is a culture of its own. I saw this as an Ohioan who lives in the Appalachian part of the state (south eastern, Lawrence county)
I’m from Toledo and I 100% agree with OP. I never quite realized how “Michigan” we are until my daughter moved to Cincinnati and I started spending more time there. I’ve even been told I have a Michigan accent, whatever that is lol
i just moved to texas and i’m noticing that i have a “toledo accent” when i talk i said “ope im sorry to someone” and the way i pronounced sorry is like sæorry
Yeah, I swear that when you’ve lived here your whole life, you can almost tell what side of town someone is from by how they talk. I’m from the east side and I can usually spot another east sider lol. And I always joke with my husband that he has a north side accent haha!
Ohio is in the Midwest.
There’s an old saying I heard… “Anything south of Columbus might as well be Kentucky.” That being said. Cincinnati is my home, and very much a northern city feel, but with some southern vibe. I’ve been to Cleveland once, it’s definitely that Great Lakes, post industrial Midwest feel. Columbus is cool, but I just dont get much creative energy there like I do from Cleveland or Cincinnati. Dayton is trash, Toledo not much better. Athens and on directly south you get a good Appalachia feel. I have never spent any significant amount of time in eastern Ohio. IMO is almost east coast because it borders Pennsylvania.
This question was made for me lol my friends always laugh at me because I absolutely hate that we're associated with the Midwest. I understand it on some degree but I'd argue that where I'm from (Cleveland, Akron, generally NE Ohio) does not match at all the typical traits for the Midwest. Cleveland especially is basically an east coast city but with less people and fame. We have the exact same stuff every other major city does. My fiancé is from Connecticut and says that parts of NE Ohio look exactly like New England, especially in the western reserve area. I don't know much about the rest of ohio but I think the state is basically like 3 or 4 states in one 😂
Based on the voting trends over the past several years I now consider Ohio part of the deep south.
I consider us to be the last state east of the Midwest. PA is considered the east coast, while KY/WV is considered to be the south. I live in columbus and this area screams midwest. But going down to say, Hocking Hills, you go more towards the Appalachian Moutains, the more southern it feels, and less Midwest.
Hell. Ohio is Hell
And the famous sign says that Hell is real. Therefore, Ohio is real by the transitive property
Southwest Ohio is NOT the south. But SE Ohio is definitely Appalachia. Everything else is Midwest. Even Kentucky is not the south, they just like to pretend they are so as not to be lumped in with Appalachia. It cracks me up how you cross the Ohio River and people act like you’re in the south. Hell, even Florence has a big “Y’all” on a water tower.
there’s a reason for the Y’all tower and it’s not Kentucky pretending to be southern
The heart of America
I would say Ohio, as a whole, is Midwest, and overlaps or contains a number of subregions/cultures: parts of Appalachia, each city, the Lake region, the Ohio Valley is very much it’s own thing, etc.
I think, geologically, that we’re in the Appalachian Plateau…the eastern half of the state anyway. That’s a a C in Geology talkin’ so feel free to blow me up.
Ohio has the 10th highest population density, mostly behind tiny New England states. This can make it difficult to say which region Ohio overall belongs to. Cincinnati "feels" like Kentucky. Cleveland is more similar to the East Coast in terms of infrastructure and culture. NW Ohio feels Midwest.
Midwest.
Mid East
I grew up near Portsmouth in Scioto County, “Where Southern Hospitality Begins”. Whether it’s true or not a lot of Appalachians down that way identify as at least partly Southern. My gal is from Erie, PA, and she calls me Southern, which I find funny.
Cleveland is definitely east coast. It started out as an outpost of Connecticut. "The Western Reserve".
I live in a small town in southeast Ohio. Definitely Appalachian where we are at
Ohio is basically the meeting point of the Northeast, Midwest, and South in my opinion.
Toledo Ohio is basically Michigan, south of Toledo it starts to become not the mid west anymore. Overall Ohio seems to become whatever state it touches. The Ohio that touches PA is basically Appalachia. I was bear hunting with some good ole boys from Ohio in PA. Rather nice fellas but even they admitted there’s a difference in the folks of Ohio who are from the border with Michigan, the Indiana border, the Kentucky border. They didn’t have much to say about central Ohio folks forget the small town they were from though.
We don't claim Toledo, that's why it feels different to you being in Ohio.
The Midwest is a wildly outdated term from many eons ago. Split it into the plains and the great lakes regions. Cleveland's peer cities are Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Milwaukee, and Detroit. Columbus is definitely a plains city. It rhymes with Indianapolis, Kansas City, and Minneapolis. Cincinnati is almost a southern riverboat city. It's peers include Nashville, St Louis, and Memphis. So. None of the above. Ohio is 3+ regions in a trenchcoat pretending to be a state.
I'm from Marietta Ohio. A city in Washington County. It is in southeast Ohio. Marietta is the oldest city in Ohio, established in 1788. It's the first permanent settlement of the northwest territory. General Rufus Putnam founded the city, with a group of 48 revolutionary war veterans who followed him from New England. Cool fact Rufus Putnam is my 9th great grandfather. Marietta also has a portion of the underground railroad. Marietta is along the Ohio river just minutes from Parkersburg West Virginia which is known Confederacy, so the Putnam's and other citizens from Marietta helped slaves get here to be free. But to answer your question I wouldn't consider Ohio the northwest anymore. We call our area the mid-ohio valley. Southeast Ohio I would consider the Appalachia since we are so close to West Virginia.Most of Ohio I would consider the Midwest.
Used to call Ohio North Central or actually mid eastern when cleveland was far and away the biggest city Dividing points South of Route 18 is the beginning of Appalachia Midwest The cuyahoga river used to be the dividing line of east coast influenced People east of there took 95 and vacationed on the Atlantic Coast People West of the river vacationed on the West Coast Now that dividing point is further west Hard to say where Rocky River ? Black River ?
Midwestern definitely
It’s all about Ohio.
Depends on what part. Along the Ohio River is very southern, east side favors a New England style, Indiana line definitely Midwest, and North part is definitely Great Lakes.
This is a hill I will always personally die on. Ohio is mostly great lakes with the very SW corner becoming Midwest. The SE corner I would consider Appalachia. With the majority of the state being covered by deciduous forest until mass land clearing happened and the extreme abundance of fresh water, I would always consider it Great lakes region. Now it also gets difficult with state lines not always filtering geographic traits.
South of 70, it’s the south or Appalachia, depending on whether you’re in southwest or southeast Ohio (if you’re JD Vance, all of southern Ohio is Appalachia.). Northwest of 71 between Columbus and Cleveland is Midwest, IMO. East of 71 gets into Appalachia. Central Ohio doesn’t really have any distinctive culture. It’s the country’s largest test market for that reason.
I'm sure culture will come with time, but Columbus feels so sterile and without a soul currently. I know a lot of people who live in Columbus, but not many who are from Columbus.
I’m from north central Ohio (Sandusky) and I have never felt like we are in the midwest. I completely agree on Great Lakes region.
northern mid-easterly
Columbus feels Midwest
Now? Bible Belt.
By definition….. Ohio is in the Midwest.
Oh is that what we’re gonna do today? We’re gonna fight?
Ohio is more NE than Midwest
Didn’t we just have this question last week?
Pretty sure we have this question every week.
Alabama
We say Ope so yes the Midwest
Part Rust Belt and part Appalachia. All shit.
Ohio is the Midwest, but personally anything south of Columbus is "the south" to me. Fuckin rednecks.
Industrial Great Lakes, Appalachian, and Mid-Western
sidney here. i feel like we’re just shy of being able to call ourselves part of the midwest. we’re probably just right on the line between midwest and northeast. southern ohio could probably start being called the south, down by cincinnati & louisville.
Imagine all of America that defines an "American". Take all of that, make it mediocre, and put it into a state. That's Ohio. A miniature United States.
I think the whole region thing needs redefining. If you look at a map it doesn’t even make sense. Why Ohio would be the mid west? Ohio is more like the mid east. We’re not that close to the Mississippi River which essentially divides the country into east and west. The middle should probably be the states that border the river. The Midwest should probably be the states that are more west of the Mississippi.