I fear the answer is largely that thousands and thousands of hours on rock from early childhood have given him an instinctive grasp of how to move and position himself efficiently, that nobody starting from scratch as an adult and trying to consciously memorise and execute a few specific "tips & tricks" has any chance of emulating.
Check out his score on the GOATS list. He has double the points of the next climber in his range. The dude is unbelievably good.
>https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1koaKcCSacMVIJepvk2kU6Iy-mBzHAqBT/mobilebasic
I do think their is actionable advice here though. I think the reason Ondra has such an insane background is because of how truly obsessed he is with climbing. He's been the most psyched, most obsessed climber in the game since he was 12, and I think that's something you can try to emulate. I truly don't think there's a single climber around that thinks more about climbing than Ondra, and I think that's what you can take away from him as a mere mortal.
Which means this next generation of kids you see crushing it at the gym and outdoors is gonna be fucking insane.
Overheard a girl who was no more than 12 years old telling her dad “I’ll work on leading that 5.13 next time.” Bruh what. There’s probably like 8 adults at my gym that can send that!
Ondra is freak strong on the wall. He might not be the strongest based on training metrics(although he's got to be top .1%), but he performs at his absolute highest when he is trying to send. You see this with top level athletes across many sports; they break into a new level when it matters most. Remember, Ondra FLASHED Jade, a brutal v14 finger strength testpiece. He might not hang the hardest numbers on a hangboard, but he has some of the strongest fingers in the game in a non-training environment.
So yes, his drive, tactics, try-hard, and technique are all elite, but don't discount the man's freak strength. That is a huge component of why he is so good.
>he has some of the strongest fingers in the game in a non-training environment.
I think this highlights one of the most common, and dumbest errors that we consistently make in training. "Finger strength" is not your ability to pile on load on a 20mm wood edge for 5 seconds. No matter how much the Lattice database makes you feel like it is. Ondra has super strong fingers on the rock because they're strong in a wide variety of angles, and a wide variety of combination of fingers.
To make an analogy to other strength training stuff... the hangboard is powerlifting. 3 simple, barbell exercises. Climbing is strongman. Random, awkward, arbitrary, varied. The strongest climbers on the wall excel in all the parts of grip that we intentionally remove from hangboarding.
Aidan Roberts shows this quite well. He's said before that he can only just about hang one handed on a 20mm edge, yet no one would dare say that he doesn't have some of the strongest fingers out there. The number of super crimpy test pieces that he's done with ease prove that without a doubt. People definitely put too much stock into hangboard numbers
I remember hearing him say something like that, but honestly I do not believe it. I do believe that on larger flat edges he may not be as strong as other V15+ climbers, but you can see him casually locking off one arm on small edges in many of the videos of him board climbing. I suspect he can easily hang one arm on a 20mm edge, and can probably can one arm hang an incut 12mm edge. I would not be surprised, however, if his pulling strength was not as monstrous as some people might think, e.g. I wouldn't be surprised if he could only do 1-3 one arm pullups.
Yes. Fingers are really only as strong as the rest of the chain. My recent return to training (3 years off) saw my hangboard numbers and one arm pulls return to max within 45 days. Pretty cool but I'm still unable to send former benchmarks due to a weaker posterior chain, weak hip flexor, and scapular control.
In short, fingers are important but only if the support is there to acfualize their potential.
Not to mention that his “weak” hangboard numbers are mostly speculation based on some result from a study 13 years ago. How many “weak” climbers have done an assessment and realized that they’re actually pretty damn strong?
He's also a taller climber, which makes hang-boarding more difficult and, imo, less indicative of finger strength on the wall. It's not a coincidence that the strongest hangboard heroes are typically quite short.
I upvoted this whole section because it all needs to be higher. Something I’ve thought about a lot is diminishing returns in these one dimensional metrics like - hangboard, front lever, etc. Once you hit a certain level of strength on these, I’m sure it impacts your climbing less and less.
Right? Like if you weigh 160lbs and can do a 10 second, 200% bodyweight hang on 20mm, what more could you possibly stand to gain from hangboarding except in the case of adapting your training to mimic holds found on a route you want to climb?
Ondra has a video where he talks about what he thinks his strengths are, and finger strength is one of the first things he brings up. He also mentions that he doesn't think his finger strength has improved much at all since he was a teenager.
EDIT: I suppose you could still stand to gain by working open hand positions/3FD/pockets
Edit: and as the guy below me said, smaller edges/single arms
Exactly, once you can one arm hang a small edge with added weight (which Ondra certainly can), how much more do you need to hold any position? At that point, you’re just getting good at hanging on a perfectly flat 20mm edge. The harder I climb the fewer and fewer perfectly flat 20mm edges I come across, so, training on specific holds for your goals becomes more important.
>Like if you weigh 160lbs and can do a 10 second, 200% bodyweight hang on 20mm, what more could you possibly stand to gain from hangboarding except in the case of adapting your training to mimic holds found on a route you want to climb?
Tbh in the context of pro climbers I think there's more benefit in hanging small (i.e. 15mm or less) edges with one arm vs hanging a big edge with loads of weight. A 20mm would be an enormous jug on a 9b route or v15 boulder so not much transferability training on an edge so big.
If you’re keen at all, Tyler Nelson was recently on a podcast episode (The Nugget) and they spoke a bit about this. Available only as a 30 min preview but it’s really interesting.
I’ve got a buddy who won US rope national a bit back. Never “trained” per say, other than walking almost everything at any gym he went to. While impressive on a campus board or other training device, put him on real rock or on a hard gym boulder/route and he flipped a switch. While he didn’t wear a truckers hat, he was basically sly Stallone in Over the Top
Long neck helps keep his hips in.
Not a joke - source, https://www.irozhlas.cz/sport/ostatni-sporty/czech-climber-adam-ondra-climbing-data-sensors_1809140930_jab
Just wanted to write this and his pendulum effect with it. But besides this he trained already like a fuckton as a kid. Going for his first 8c at age of 12 or so. [his feet look like shit](https://www.sportspodiatry.com.au/site/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/foot-binding.jpg)
Edit: never forget his never ending motivation and fun with this sport. He is born for it mentally and didnt post on youtube for months after olympia
Very flexible hips too. Means he can keep his torso / centre of gravity close to the wall. Means better efficiency - using leg muscles more, rather than dangling off his arms.
As well as his super long neck…
Source: none, it’s just an opinion
Seems like his hip flexibility lets him take advantage of being tall but ALSO not get held back in positions where tall climbers otherwise might—unlike others, it looks like he’s able to get close enough to the wall that his height is almost never a disadvantage.
>his height is almost never a disadvantage.
I'd argue that the true disadvantage of height isn't cramped moves or high footholds, its the extra weight and levers relative to strength. So height is always a disadvantage unless the climber can cut out unnecesary moves
I remember one video he said he’s tall, but really it’s a lot of neck so it’s not really like his body proportions are that of a taller person. He was talking about his ape index but I’m sure the same principal holds true.
It's his attitude towards climbing and training. I think people underestimate how much he truly cares about the send. This is a man who has **cried** on camera after a failed attempt. He leaves everything on the table when he goes for the send, in a way that very few people can emulate.
Don't be mistaken, Ondra is stupidly strong. Just as there's pro climbers that beat him out on finger strength, there's probably others that are weaker than him. Anyone can have strong fingers or a strong core if they work hard enough though. Not many people have the sheer willpower and drive to contort their bodies on the floor of their living room to mimic their project. Or visualize every move down to the foot placement on a climb before every attempt. I'd love to be that detailed, but I'd also hate climbing if I tried it, and most people would probably agree. I tried the Ondra floor technique and it took 30 seconds to decide I'll never be at Ondra's level and that's only one of many reasons.
**TL;DR: It's all a mindset**
Mindset is definitely huge, especially for sport climbing. I can see a huge difference in performance improvement for myself and my cautious groups of friends when starting bouldering vs those who were fearless and committed every single time. You can see the difference in Ondra’s passion and fearlessness in Magnus’ video on the ondra bridge arete climb as well. This mindset affects how much effort you put in every time, which compounds over time.
Also he trains like a maniac. He has 2 training sessions a day.
He trained for months with physiotherapists to be able to hold the kneebars in silence. He is extremely determined and does everything to get where he wants to get.
What is important to realise that he might train different (lower) intensities but higher volume than other climbers at his level.
Back in the 90s... you had Francois Legrand, winning almost all Lead competitions, and Fred Nicole, boulder master at that time. I spoke with both at some point. Nicole trained so intense that he had to rest 3-4 days in between sessions. Legrand said he never trained monos or injury prone holds, because he wanted to be able to train each and every day! Two top climbers at the opposite of the spectrum. One aiming for endurance and power endurance.. the other for pure power.
I vaguely remember an R&I article about the first time a guy saw young Sharma climb during some local competition. Sharma couldn't even do a one arm pull up, but still won from much stronger guys.
So the advice would be: *start weak, stay weak for a long time, and start focussing on strength a lot later than most people do right now*.
This needs to be higher up. You can build strength easy compared to learning to climb while “weak”. Once the strength comes and you already know how to maximize what you got with its game over. I was thinking about this earlier today, I’d like to see a study comparing height to grade climbed. Short climbers who consistently get screwed end up climbing harder later in life compared to taller counterparts due to skills being built up to compensate for lack of height
Could be a bunch of right answers. If you’re short you learn how to climb tall, and if you learn while weaker than climbing just gets easier when you have both the skills of climbing while uncomfortable and the strength. But yeah I agree it’s probably a slight advantage early on, but at the end of the day people only recognize the moves that were hard due to being tall/short without realizing how many other moves they had an advantage on
Also measuring finger strength is a single data point concerning finger strength.
It varies across grip types/positions etc.
Just because climber A can hang +5kg on a single arm half crimp than Climber B, does not mean they have more finger strength in the full range of finger strength in climbing. People put WAY too much stock in those myopic measurements.
I agree with this a lot. From other interviews/vids/media and the like, the thing that stuck out to me was how people would mention his way of speaking/thinking about climbing was pretty remarkable. I recall Tom Randall mentioning in an interview how he was telling Adam about his project, and Adam's ability to break down/see/try to understand the line was really fascinating to him (I'm paraphrasing, but it's something along those lines).
I also think it's reflected in how he is so keen to try basically any kind of discipline of climbing. There is certainly nothing wrong with specializing, but you think about how he is even willing to get on big walls and other crazy off widths. It might be intimidating to try those types of things, but he just goes at it head on. He might not be the "best" in those styles but he's obviously always looking to add to his climbing repertoire.
I think you also see it a lot in pro climbers (and athletes, too). There's something really different in how they think and approach their sport, and the crazy amount of drive they have for it. I think of someone else like Margo Hayes and how they talked about her competitive drive; was something kind of "odd" to see in a young kid.
I think this is huge--he has a huge, obsessive love for climbing paired with the drive to give absolutely everything on the wall. Any time you see him fall on a real burn, he just flips his shit. Screaming, cussing, flailing around and calling himself an idiot, whether it's a mega-proj or some obscure mid-5.14 nobody cares about. My wife always rolls her eyes and calls him a child when he melts down - which, fair enough - but I think that unflattering behavior reflects Adam bringing collosal determination and expectations for himself (along with a dgaf attitude to anyone else's expectations/perceptions) that help him give every last drop of strength and concentration way more often than most pros.
This might be totally unrelated. People displays their passion in very different ways. . Shawn Raboutou is very calm and takes all failures very nicely, almost laughing and yet he climbs just as hard.
There is a pretty enormous difference in bouldering and sport climbing when it comes to failure. Shawn falls off, laughs it off, and has a dozen more send attempts that session. Ondra falls off, and it has ruined his fucking day because he gets 1-2 good attempts per couple days.
If you are trying 100% limit on those enormously long endurance fests like in Flatanger, you are not getting more than 2 attempts in one day. And you are taking several rest days per week.
This. And for anyone who is interested in mindset: Jerry Moffatt wrote a wonderful book about it! (And Ondra is in it.) https://www.amazon.com/Mastermind/dp/1912560968
I haven't seen him in competition but he climbs at my gym.
In earlier videos he was really skinny. Now he's quite muscular but I think he kept his style.
He climbs very fast and he seems to be very good at planning moves from the ground. Also I think his foot work is quite clean.
I don't know whether those are key differentiators but thats what I can see.
You ever talk to him? He seems like a good dude, interesting as heck hes almost like the Bobby Fisher of climbing to me. He looks like an alien on the wall some times hes just so natural, most humans were born to walk and run he was truly born to climb.
He's nice we changed a couple of words. But the gym goes silent when he climbs. So I tend to not bother him - the whole gym would like to be friends with him so I don't want to water his time too...
Also it's not the gym where he lives so he comes for competitions or when he's in town for other reasons, but still 3-6 times a year.
I wonder if there’s anything to be said for going from skinny —> muscular *while* climbing at such a high level already. Unlike someone who just started out muscular already, he developed strength once he knew how to use it, and Maybe could adapt it into his climbing much better…
Another advantage there is the applicability of that muscle to the task at hand. If you come to climbing with muscle you developed from another sport or just due to an interest in bodybuilding, you likely still need to do some strength and muscle-building work in order to fully apply your strength to climbing. Ondra built that muscle to directly address holes in his climbing abilities.
Look at many women in the gym. Usually their technique is way better they just don't have the power to do 8a. But since can do 7a. Men often get stuck way earlier and are stronger.
So I think this also applies to higher levels...
Not especially strong for this level of climbing, but remember that when he climbed with Magnus mditbo, who used to be crazy strong and still is, Adam bested him in many strength moves (compression, pinch, etc)
Look at the video on Jacob Schubert's channel of Ondra and Schubert trying Project Big in Flatanger. Domen Škofic (Janja Garbret's bf) says on camera that he can clearly see that Jacob is way stronger than Adam in individual moves, but Adam just combines it all together much better.
At some point we have to talk about his endurance. Sure, his sheer power helps him from dipping into his endurance too much and there were significant rests on Silence, but he’s also a good onsight climber. First attempts aren’t clean, and margin for error has to be forgiving. First attempts waste a lot of precious energy on decoy or false holds. His flash attempts and onsight goal of 15a means that his endurance is greater than what 15a takes out of him.
Not sure how he attains it, but it’s definitely a factor in his most serious discipline of sport climbing.
\#1: Climb longer (I mean, over time), and shape your entire world and at least the next few decades to climbing, with an ever narrowing focus on figuring out what works best for you.
The factors you'll never control include your genetics (likely important for ever climbing V16/17 or 9b/c; likely not limiting for climbing harder than 90% of climbers), and to an extent sheer luck in life (hit by a car, born in X country/town, wealthy/supportive parents).
That's probably the bulk of what you can do. Stay focused on the fundamentals. As someone who is sending 7b, you really shouldn't get caught up in the weird/negligible/last-mile (er, km) details. You should be focusing on the basics/cruise-altitude stuff. Good tactics, good programming, reliable sleep, prioritizing your life around climbing (if that really brings you joy and you truly anticipate it is the best path for you... considering you'll likely never be a wealthy pro or send V17).
One additional thing: Perhaps the most useful immediate thing you could do is to start getting more serious about using bouldering as training. Ondra is strong. He sends V15, V16 (Will Bosi called Terranova the hardest boulder he's ever tried). Most elite sport climbers spend a lot of their day to day training life bouldering in some form or another. In the scheme of things, the strength you probably have to climb 7b isn't considerable-- but if you can get yourself to V10/7C+ boulder strength and movement, your route grades will explode.
> you really shouldn't get caught up in the weird/negligible/last-mile (er, km) details.
When I first started lifting weights back in high school, my friends and I used to be concerned with protein timing, whey types, and other minute details. Turns out those things don't really matter until you are at the pro stage.
So yeah, hard agree on the importance of "basics".
Re: strength, although Adam may not be “as strong” as many top level climbers in terms of things like max finger strength, front levering, pull-ups, etc, but his strength combined with impeccable technique still seem to keep him near the top in places that matter but seem less perceptible on paper, like shoulder stability in steep terrain, maintaining tension through the core and legs in odd positions, generating power from his entire body, etc.
And yeah as other people have said, the man is just crazy dedicated and has built his life around climbing. He has min-maxed everything he does to an extent that very few athletes ever achieve.
Insane mileage - gives excellent body sense and routereading
Super precise, even while moving very fast
Great leg and shoulder mobility
He wants to be #1 more than anyone else. He wants every send so damn badly
I think the most noticeable difference is that Adam seems to have a mindset to prefer beta solutions over strength. Maybe from his youth when he climbed with physically stronger climbers. Often its just subtle differences in position that can make or break a specific move and Adam is a master at finding those nuances.
He just seems to understand movement has build his body to not restrict him in getting into favorable positions. Good technique reduces the amount of force you have to generate so his weaker fingers (compared to other 9b climbers) might be stronger if you take everything into account.
Also he tries really really hard, I think this comes from an innate believe in himself. Something that is never to be underestimated, visualization is a powerful tool. How often do we struggle on a move and after we see someone do it more people start to succeed. In Adam this is especially strong because his fast knowledge of movement and determination.
I think one factor is that he has extreme hip mobility and flexibility which allows him to compensate for the downsides of being taller than the rest, while keeping the benefits his height provides. That's why I think he's one of the rare pro climbers that are relatively tall and still very strong on things that might shut down other people his size.
It's the combination of never ending motivation, starting early and talent. A lot of people have the first two, but what separates Ondra for me is pure talent. He is much more talented then all of the guys out there. He is able to really feel the movement, learn the movement and focus at an exceptional level. You can see the way he is climbing when he is 10, it's just outrageous how good, efficient and fast he was climbing back then. There isn't anyone out there that climbs like that.
He is really strong and has great endurance, imo frontlever has little to do with climbing power. He has a very balanced strength and amazing technique. As many other said he is good at planing is training to get a great deal of time on the wall.
> imo frontlever has little to do with climbing power.
Not saying I disagree with you, but I found this a little funny since I occasionally check those *new climbers advice* threads and when I see a question "Newbie here what workouts do I do", often times the answers would be: "work on 1-arm and front lever progressions".
This is like being a rec league basketball player and trying to mimic Lebron James. They’re genetic freaks of nature who have thousands and thousands of hours of experience. Find a routine that works for you personally.
Well first many of your statements about his strength levels are no longer current. He was at one point quite weak, but got way stronger and can belt out multiple 1 arm chins, campus pretty far on very small rungs, and many other feats of strength. I'm not sure I've seen any finger strength numbers from the modern beefy Ondra so I don't think we can assume he is an outlier. Maybe he was weaker than a few other measured pros, but that doesn't mean he is actually weak overall.
This brings me to my next point- he has a really good sense of exactly what he needs to train and how to respond and he goes to pretty extreme lengths to be specific. He built a heinously hard woodie in Flatanger to stay super powerful and strong during Silence, for example. He tried a ton of novel training methods for Tokyo including climbing in a Sauna.
Frankly your level is such that you need to not even think about what a pro does and maybe be reflective and holistic about your own climbing.
I don't think you can convert what separates Ondra into actionable tips to improve your own climbing. If we could, other pro climbers would do it too. A better question might be: what separates pro climbers from amateurs? (and the disappointing answer would most likely be: good genetics + training very very hard from a really early age)
>(and the disappointing answer would most likely be: good genetics + training very very hard from a really early age)
iirc, there have been a few v14+ climbers who started in their late 20s and early 30s.
[https://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/48-year-old-akira-waku-of-japan-sends-v15-16-with-video/](https://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/48-year-old-akira-waku-of-japan-sends-v15-16-with-video/)
there's two others that I remember reading about but I don't remember enough details to be able to google them (I literally had to google "japanese hobbyist climber v14 started late" because I didn't remember this guy's name either lol)
Neil Gresham started climbing in his 20s I think, and certainly didn't hit his peak until his late 40s. He may not be bouldering V14 but he's damn strong for sure
He is obsessed with sport climbing, and other forms, but basically his near non-duality approach to his projects - he has dedication to climbing in general of course, but his true obsession is with the projects he has. This is the same as obsession one would have if they were on the verge of death for some reason, lets say dehydration; the want to crawl back and stay alive, seems to be how he approaches his projects.
Also he is very, very confident in himself. He has tried to come off as humble a bit, but in general psychology: he has narcissistic (don't we all) qualities that add to his mentality of pontificating himself through proof of his climbing/stoke.
\--
Now to clarify, his strength is on par with what I just said. It is incredible. He has the ability to use his - not the best in the world - maximal strength associated with the climb he would be doing at the time, and keeps it consistent. He doesn't really have low-high power moments IMO, he uses the same consistent energy output as say... a cyclist?
It isn't about having ungodly strong fingers or Caldwell level technique for Adam.
I BELIEVE that Adam operates at a different physical frequency than everyone else. His awareness is...prodigious.
In terms of what is actionable, I think Ondra's super power is obsession. Specifically sustained and intense obsession. All of the best climbers I know are as well. Really you see it in all of the most elite performers across a wide range of disciplines.
From what I can tell, Ondra isn't obsessed with training or being stronger, he's obsessed with rock climbing. Specifically the movements and intricacies of specific routes and climbs. These details are what makes the difference, in my eyes. Lots of people are obsessed with the general idea of climbing. They get out, enjoy the day, have fun. Really, this is probably the healthiest way to approach the sport. But all of best climbers I've met will talk your ear off about how exactly they grabbed the hold, which foot chip they used, and why it fit their box better, etc etc.
I think he got that good not in spite but **BECAUSE** he has always been weaker than others climbing the same grade. If you're not that strong as the other guy, you need to find different solutions, optimize your technique in the smallest detail. Whether it's 6c, 7c or 8c. And then when you finally do get stronger you can make gigantic leaps.
When I was younger I was much stronger, but my grades were lower than later in my climbing career. I then had a few shoulder injuries which took a very long time to heal, but still I was able to climb but was a lot weaker than my peers. Somehow my technique became way way better, so when my strength (mostly) came back after those longer periods I was making jumps in the grades.
I had the great opportunity to ***climb with Ondra for a few days***. I joined a training camp for advanced climbers to get specific advice from a few PROs. Patxi was there for training advice, Ondra was there for on sight and redpoint advice. He saw all of us climb, and gave tailored advice... but for me the advice was quit short and simple: get stronger :/
Not sure why you got downvoted. I think there is a lot to say in regard to how people who start off weaker are forced to develop their technique more and much earlier than those who are naturally strong. Being weak forces you to learn the best body positions and to refine your beta otherwise you simply won't complete the climb, whereas if you're strong in order to develop a similar level of body awareness you have to be a lot more focused on using good technique since you can often get away with sub-optimal beta.
If you’re “relatively weak” with good technique the recipe to get stronger is simple: start focusing on strength. Plenty of training books and training material out there.
If you’re strong, you often don’t recognize that your technique can improve. And when you do recognize, the recipe to get more technique while being strong is difficult. You’d have to switch off power to “feel” the difference between different methods. Much much harder.
"hard work and doing something more than anyone else in the world will get you 95% of the way to your goals" - Jeremy Jones
Are you putting in the volume?
I think his greatest strength is the ability to always give a 100% you can climb so much harder when you’re extremely motivated and willing to push to the limit.
I fear the answer is largely that thousands and thousands of hours on rock from early childhood have given him an instinctive grasp of how to move and position himself efficiently, that nobody starting from scratch as an adult and trying to consciously memorise and execute a few specific "tips & tricks" has any chance of emulating.
"thousands and thousands of hours on rock from early childhood, while being physically weaker than the others he climbed with"
While climbing in some of the traditionally strictist and hardest areas in Europe.
Quite. He mentioned in one of his videos that he used to hang out at the crag after school with Martin Stranik: three years older and super strong
Yep. There are physiological oddities for sure, but what sets him apart is experiential and mental.
100%. His 8a.nu is something else. He has a shockingly huge base of hard climbs.
Check out his score on the GOATS list. He has double the points of the next climber in his range. The dude is unbelievably good. >https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1koaKcCSacMVIJepvk2kU6Iy-mBzHAqBT/mobilebasic
I do think their is actionable advice here though. I think the reason Ondra has such an insane background is because of how truly obsessed he is with climbing. He's been the most psyched, most obsessed climber in the game since he was 12, and I think that's something you can try to emulate. I truly don't think there's a single climber around that thinks more about climbing than Ondra, and I think that's what you can take away from him as a mere mortal.
Which means this next generation of kids you see crushing it at the gym and outdoors is gonna be fucking insane. Overheard a girl who was no more than 12 years old telling her dad “I’ll work on leading that 5.13 next time.” Bruh what. There’s probably like 8 adults at my gym that can send that!
Ondra is freak strong on the wall. He might not be the strongest based on training metrics(although he's got to be top .1%), but he performs at his absolute highest when he is trying to send. You see this with top level athletes across many sports; they break into a new level when it matters most. Remember, Ondra FLASHED Jade, a brutal v14 finger strength testpiece. He might not hang the hardest numbers on a hangboard, but he has some of the strongest fingers in the game in a non-training environment. So yes, his drive, tactics, try-hard, and technique are all elite, but don't discount the man's freak strength. That is a huge component of why he is so good.
>he has some of the strongest fingers in the game in a non-training environment. I think this highlights one of the most common, and dumbest errors that we consistently make in training. "Finger strength" is not your ability to pile on load on a 20mm wood edge for 5 seconds. No matter how much the Lattice database makes you feel like it is. Ondra has super strong fingers on the rock because they're strong in a wide variety of angles, and a wide variety of combination of fingers. To make an analogy to other strength training stuff... the hangboard is powerlifting. 3 simple, barbell exercises. Climbing is strongman. Random, awkward, arbitrary, varied. The strongest climbers on the wall excel in all the parts of grip that we intentionally remove from hangboarding.
Aidan Roberts shows this quite well. He's said before that he can only just about hang one handed on a 20mm edge, yet no one would dare say that he doesn't have some of the strongest fingers out there. The number of super crimpy test pieces that he's done with ease prove that without a doubt. People definitely put too much stock into hangboard numbers
I remember hearing him say something like that, but honestly I do not believe it. I do believe that on larger flat edges he may not be as strong as other V15+ climbers, but you can see him casually locking off one arm on small edges in many of the videos of him board climbing. I suspect he can easily hang one arm on a 20mm edge, and can probably can one arm hang an incut 12mm edge. I would not be surprised, however, if his pulling strength was not as monstrous as some people might think, e.g. I wouldn't be surprised if he could only do 1-3 one arm pullups.
Yes. Fingers are really only as strong as the rest of the chain. My recent return to training (3 years off) saw my hangboard numbers and one arm pulls return to max within 45 days. Pretty cool but I'm still unable to send former benchmarks due to a weaker posterior chain, weak hip flexor, and scapular control. In short, fingers are important but only if the support is there to acfualize their potential.
Can't wait to read more about that! Hope the return is going well-- and fun.
Classic 'training the test' instead of 'testing the training'.
Good analogies.
Not to mention that his “weak” hangboard numbers are mostly speculation based on some result from a study 13 years ago. How many “weak” climbers have done an assessment and realized that they’re actually pretty damn strong?
He's also a taller climber, which makes hang-boarding more difficult and, imo, less indicative of finger strength on the wall. It's not a coincidence that the strongest hangboard heroes are typically quite short.
I upvoted this whole section because it all needs to be higher. Something I’ve thought about a lot is diminishing returns in these one dimensional metrics like - hangboard, front lever, etc. Once you hit a certain level of strength on these, I’m sure it impacts your climbing less and less.
Right? Like if you weigh 160lbs and can do a 10 second, 200% bodyweight hang on 20mm, what more could you possibly stand to gain from hangboarding except in the case of adapting your training to mimic holds found on a route you want to climb? Ondra has a video where he talks about what he thinks his strengths are, and finger strength is one of the first things he brings up. He also mentions that he doesn't think his finger strength has improved much at all since he was a teenager. EDIT: I suppose you could still stand to gain by working open hand positions/3FD/pockets Edit: and as the guy below me said, smaller edges/single arms
Exactly, once you can one arm hang a small edge with added weight (which Ondra certainly can), how much more do you need to hold any position? At that point, you’re just getting good at hanging on a perfectly flat 20mm edge. The harder I climb the fewer and fewer perfectly flat 20mm edges I come across, so, training on specific holds for your goals becomes more important.
It *is* pretty cool to see people who just go hard at hangboarding and can do one arms on like 5mm and shit. Ruler pullups are crazy
[Ruler pullups you say?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALTPDRckryY)
Yeah I've seen that one! Ridiculous
>Like if you weigh 160lbs and can do a 10 second, 200% bodyweight hang on 20mm, what more could you possibly stand to gain from hangboarding except in the case of adapting your training to mimic holds found on a route you want to climb? Tbh in the context of pro climbers I think there's more benefit in hanging small (i.e. 15mm or less) edges with one arm vs hanging a big edge with loads of weight. A 20mm would be an enormous jug on a 9b route or v15 boulder so not much transferability training on an edge so big.
Good point
If you’re keen at all, Tyler Nelson was recently on a podcast episode (The Nugget) and they spoke a bit about this. Available only as a 30 min preview but it’s really interesting.
This should be higher up. Finger strength measurements for benchmarks are very one dimensional.
I’ve got a buddy who won US rope national a bit back. Never “trained” per say, other than walking almost everything at any gym he went to. While impressive on a campus board or other training device, put him on real rock or on a hard gym boulder/route and he flipped a switch. While he didn’t wear a truckers hat, he was basically sly Stallone in Over the Top
Hat turning is no doubt an underrated tactic.
Long neck helps keep his hips in. Not a joke - source, https://www.irozhlas.cz/sport/ostatni-sporty/czech-climber-adam-ondra-climbing-data-sensors_1809140930_jab
[easy fix](https://imgur.com/a/SJf8wwi)
Yep. I do this on my rest days. Makes a big difference on the wall… and at concerts.
Goddamit. You beat me to it.
Just wanted to write this and his pendulum effect with it. But besides this he trained already like a fuckton as a kid. Going for his first 8c at age of 12 or so. [his feet look like shit](https://www.sportspodiatry.com.au/site/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/foot-binding.jpg) Edit: never forget his never ending motivation and fun with this sport. He is born for it mentally and didnt post on youtube for months after olympia
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.gearjunkie.com/uploads/2018/09/adam-ondra-600x400.jpg You sure that's him?
Ye, maybe those were some feet of the chinese foot binding technique but the spirit is the same yo :D
Thought I was in CCJ for a sec
What is CCJ?
/r/climbingcirclejerk
Good sub, thanks my brother
Very flexible hips too. Means he can keep his torso / centre of gravity close to the wall. Means better efficiency - using leg muscles more, rather than dangling off his arms. As well as his super long neck… Source: none, it’s just an opinion
Seems like his hip flexibility lets him take advantage of being tall but ALSO not get held back in positions where tall climbers otherwise might—unlike others, it looks like he’s able to get close enough to the wall that his height is almost never a disadvantage.
>his height is almost never a disadvantage. I'd argue that the true disadvantage of height isn't cramped moves or high footholds, its the extra weight and levers relative to strength. So height is always a disadvantage unless the climber can cut out unnecesary moves
You can train strength, you can’t train a 6ft+ wingspan unfortunately
I remember one video he said he’s tall, but really it’s a lot of neck so it’s not really like his body proportions are that of a taller person. He was talking about his ape index but I’m sure the same principal holds true.
It's his attitude towards climbing and training. I think people underestimate how much he truly cares about the send. This is a man who has **cried** on camera after a failed attempt. He leaves everything on the table when he goes for the send, in a way that very few people can emulate. Don't be mistaken, Ondra is stupidly strong. Just as there's pro climbers that beat him out on finger strength, there's probably others that are weaker than him. Anyone can have strong fingers or a strong core if they work hard enough though. Not many people have the sheer willpower and drive to contort their bodies on the floor of their living room to mimic their project. Or visualize every move down to the foot placement on a climb before every attempt. I'd love to be that detailed, but I'd also hate climbing if I tried it, and most people would probably agree. I tried the Ondra floor technique and it took 30 seconds to decide I'll never be at Ondra's level and that's only one of many reasons. **TL;DR: It's all a mindset**
Mindset is definitely huge, especially for sport climbing. I can see a huge difference in performance improvement for myself and my cautious groups of friends when starting bouldering vs those who were fearless and committed every single time. You can see the difference in Ondra’s passion and fearlessness in Magnus’ video on the ondra bridge arete climb as well. This mindset affects how much effort you put in every time, which compounds over time.
Also he trains like a maniac. He has 2 training sessions a day. He trained for months with physiotherapists to be able to hold the kneebars in silence. He is extremely determined and does everything to get where he wants to get.
What is important to realise that he might train different (lower) intensities but higher volume than other climbers at his level. Back in the 90s... you had Francois Legrand, winning almost all Lead competitions, and Fred Nicole, boulder master at that time. I spoke with both at some point. Nicole trained so intense that he had to rest 3-4 days in between sessions. Legrand said he never trained monos or injury prone holds, because he wanted to be able to train each and every day! Two top climbers at the opposite of the spectrum. One aiming for endurance and power endurance.. the other for pure power.
If you watch his training logs, there is for sure lots of low intensity training, mainly for technique, but he also trains quite intense too.
I vaguely remember an R&I article about the first time a guy saw young Sharma climb during some local competition. Sharma couldn't even do a one arm pull up, but still won from much stronger guys. So the advice would be: *start weak, stay weak for a long time, and start focussing on strength a lot later than most people do right now*.
This needs to be higher up. You can build strength easy compared to learning to climb while “weak”. Once the strength comes and you already know how to maximize what you got with its game over. I was thinking about this earlier today, I’d like to see a study comparing height to grade climbed. Short climbers who consistently get screwed end up climbing harder later in life compared to taller counterparts due to skills being built up to compensate for lack of height
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Could be a bunch of right answers. If you’re short you learn how to climb tall, and if you learn while weaker than climbing just gets easier when you have both the skills of climbing while uncomfortable and the strength. But yeah I agree it’s probably a slight advantage early on, but at the end of the day people only recognize the moves that were hard due to being tall/short without realizing how many other moves they had an advantage on
Also measuring finger strength is a single data point concerning finger strength. It varies across grip types/positions etc. Just because climber A can hang +5kg on a single arm half crimp than Climber B, does not mean they have more finger strength in the full range of finger strength in climbing. People put WAY too much stock in those myopic measurements.
I agree with this a lot. From other interviews/vids/media and the like, the thing that stuck out to me was how people would mention his way of speaking/thinking about climbing was pretty remarkable. I recall Tom Randall mentioning in an interview how he was telling Adam about his project, and Adam's ability to break down/see/try to understand the line was really fascinating to him (I'm paraphrasing, but it's something along those lines). I also think it's reflected in how he is so keen to try basically any kind of discipline of climbing. There is certainly nothing wrong with specializing, but you think about how he is even willing to get on big walls and other crazy off widths. It might be intimidating to try those types of things, but he just goes at it head on. He might not be the "best" in those styles but he's obviously always looking to add to his climbing repertoire. I think you also see it a lot in pro climbers (and athletes, too). There's something really different in how they think and approach their sport, and the crazy amount of drive they have for it. I think of someone else like Margo Hayes and how they talked about her competitive drive; was something kind of "odd" to see in a young kid.
I think this is huge--he has a huge, obsessive love for climbing paired with the drive to give absolutely everything on the wall. Any time you see him fall on a real burn, he just flips his shit. Screaming, cussing, flailing around and calling himself an idiot, whether it's a mega-proj or some obscure mid-5.14 nobody cares about. My wife always rolls her eyes and calls him a child when he melts down - which, fair enough - but I think that unflattering behavior reflects Adam bringing collosal determination and expectations for himself (along with a dgaf attitude to anyone else's expectations/perceptions) that help him give every last drop of strength and concentration way more often than most pros.
This might be totally unrelated. People displays their passion in very different ways. . Shawn Raboutou is very calm and takes all failures very nicely, almost laughing and yet he climbs just as hard.
Shawn Raboutou definitelly changed my view on Ondra's attitude
There is a pretty enormous difference in bouldering and sport climbing when it comes to failure. Shawn falls off, laughs it off, and has a dozen more send attempts that session. Ondra falls off, and it has ruined his fucking day because he gets 1-2 good attempts per couple days. If you are trying 100% limit on those enormously long endurance fests like in Flatanger, you are not getting more than 2 attempts in one day. And you are taking several rest days per week.
This. And for anyone who is interested in mindset: Jerry Moffatt wrote a wonderful book about it! (And Ondra is in it.) https://www.amazon.com/Mastermind/dp/1912560968
>TL;DR: It's all a mindset mindset is important, but its not what separates him.
I haven't seen him in competition but he climbs at my gym. In earlier videos he was really skinny. Now he's quite muscular but I think he kept his style. He climbs very fast and he seems to be very good at planning moves from the ground. Also I think his foot work is quite clean. I don't know whether those are key differentiators but thats what I can see.
You ever talk to him? He seems like a good dude, interesting as heck hes almost like the Bobby Fisher of climbing to me. He looks like an alien on the wall some times hes just so natural, most humans were born to walk and run he was truly born to climb.
He's nice we changed a couple of words. But the gym goes silent when he climbs. So I tend to not bother him - the whole gym would like to be friends with him so I don't want to water his time too... Also it's not the gym where he lives so he comes for competitions or when he's in town for other reasons, but still 3-6 times a year.
“ hes almost like the Bobby Fisher of climbing to me” Just without the…problematic nature.
Lol... Yeah I honestly don't want to be known as the Bobby Fisher of well, anything
I wonder if there’s anything to be said for going from skinny —> muscular *while* climbing at such a high level already. Unlike someone who just started out muscular already, he developed strength once he knew how to use it, and Maybe could adapt it into his climbing much better…
Tbf, EVERY 6 year old is skinny.
You obviously don't live in America. 😂
Adam has always been skinny, also as an adult, until he started training with Patxi Usobiaga.
Another advantage there is the applicability of that muscle to the task at hand. If you come to climbing with muscle you developed from another sport or just due to an interest in bodybuilding, you likely still need to do some strength and muscle-building work in order to fully apply your strength to climbing. Ondra built that muscle to directly address holes in his climbing abilities.
Look at many women in the gym. Usually their technique is way better they just don't have the power to do 8a. But since can do 7a. Men often get stuck way earlier and are stronger. So I think this also applies to higher levels...
Not especially strong for this level of climbing, but remember that when he climbed with Magnus mditbo, who used to be crazy strong and still is, Adam bested him in many strength moves (compression, pinch, etc)
Look at the video on Jacob Schubert's channel of Ondra and Schubert trying Project Big in Flatanger. Domen Škofic (Janja Garbret's bf) says on camera that he can clearly see that Jacob is way stronger than Adam in individual moves, but Adam just combines it all together much better.
He’s got that dawg in him
r/nba is leaking
At some point we have to talk about his endurance. Sure, his sheer power helps him from dipping into his endurance too much and there were significant rests on Silence, but he’s also a good onsight climber. First attempts aren’t clean, and margin for error has to be forgiving. First attempts waste a lot of precious energy on decoy or false holds. His flash attempts and onsight goal of 15a means that his endurance is greater than what 15a takes out of him. Not sure how he attains it, but it’s definitely a factor in his most serious discipline of sport climbing.
He just got that dawg in him
\#1: Climb longer (I mean, over time), and shape your entire world and at least the next few decades to climbing, with an ever narrowing focus on figuring out what works best for you. The factors you'll never control include your genetics (likely important for ever climbing V16/17 or 9b/c; likely not limiting for climbing harder than 90% of climbers), and to an extent sheer luck in life (hit by a car, born in X country/town, wealthy/supportive parents). That's probably the bulk of what you can do. Stay focused on the fundamentals. As someone who is sending 7b, you really shouldn't get caught up in the weird/negligible/last-mile (er, km) details. You should be focusing on the basics/cruise-altitude stuff. Good tactics, good programming, reliable sleep, prioritizing your life around climbing (if that really brings you joy and you truly anticipate it is the best path for you... considering you'll likely never be a wealthy pro or send V17). One additional thing: Perhaps the most useful immediate thing you could do is to start getting more serious about using bouldering as training. Ondra is strong. He sends V15, V16 (Will Bosi called Terranova the hardest boulder he's ever tried). Most elite sport climbers spend a lot of their day to day training life bouldering in some form or another. In the scheme of things, the strength you probably have to climb 7b isn't considerable-- but if you can get yourself to V10/7C+ boulder strength and movement, your route grades will explode.
> you really shouldn't get caught up in the weird/negligible/last-mile (er, km) details. When I first started lifting weights back in high school, my friends and I used to be concerned with protein timing, whey types, and other minute details. Turns out those things don't really matter until you are at the pro stage. So yeah, hard agree on the importance of "basics".
Re: strength, although Adam may not be “as strong” as many top level climbers in terms of things like max finger strength, front levering, pull-ups, etc, but his strength combined with impeccable technique still seem to keep him near the top in places that matter but seem less perceptible on paper, like shoulder stability in steep terrain, maintaining tension through the core and legs in odd positions, generating power from his entire body, etc. And yeah as other people have said, the man is just crazy dedicated and has built his life around climbing. He has min-maxed everything he does to an extent that very few athletes ever achieve.
Insane mileage - gives excellent body sense and routereading Super precise, even while moving very fast Great leg and shoulder mobility He wants to be #1 more than anyone else. He wants every send so damn badly
I think the most noticeable difference is that Adam seems to have a mindset to prefer beta solutions over strength. Maybe from his youth when he climbed with physically stronger climbers. Often its just subtle differences in position that can make or break a specific move and Adam is a master at finding those nuances. He just seems to understand movement has build his body to not restrict him in getting into favorable positions. Good technique reduces the amount of force you have to generate so his weaker fingers (compared to other 9b climbers) might be stronger if you take everything into account. Also he tries really really hard, I think this comes from an innate believe in himself. Something that is never to be underestimated, visualization is a powerful tool. How often do we struggle on a move and after we see someone do it more people start to succeed. In Adam this is especially strong because his fast knowledge of movement and determination.
I think one factor is that he has extreme hip mobility and flexibility which allows him to compensate for the downsides of being taller than the rest, while keeping the benefits his height provides. That's why I think he's one of the rare pro climbers that are relatively tall and still very strong on things that might shut down other people his size.
Alex Megos is very flexible and can easily do a split, but is less capable of using that flexibility most of the time.
It's the combination of never ending motivation, starting early and talent. A lot of people have the first two, but what separates Ondra for me is pure talent. He is much more talented then all of the guys out there. He is able to really feel the movement, learn the movement and focus at an exceptional level. You can see the way he is climbing when he is 10, it's just outrageous how good, efficient and fast he was climbing back then. There isn't anyone out there that climbs like that.
His neck gives him balance and stability much like a cats tail does.
He is really strong and has great endurance, imo frontlever has little to do with climbing power. He has a very balanced strength and amazing technique. As many other said he is good at planing is training to get a great deal of time on the wall.
> imo frontlever has little to do with climbing power. Not saying I disagree with you, but I found this a little funny since I occasionally check those *new climbers advice* threads and when I see a question "Newbie here what workouts do I do", often times the answers would be: "work on 1-arm and front lever progressions".
This is like being a rec league basketball player and trying to mimic Lebron James. They’re genetic freaks of nature who have thousands and thousands of hours of experience. Find a routine that works for you personally.
Well first many of your statements about his strength levels are no longer current. He was at one point quite weak, but got way stronger and can belt out multiple 1 arm chins, campus pretty far on very small rungs, and many other feats of strength. I'm not sure I've seen any finger strength numbers from the modern beefy Ondra so I don't think we can assume he is an outlier. Maybe he was weaker than a few other measured pros, but that doesn't mean he is actually weak overall. This brings me to my next point- he has a really good sense of exactly what he needs to train and how to respond and he goes to pretty extreme lengths to be specific. He built a heinously hard woodie in Flatanger to stay super powerful and strong during Silence, for example. He tried a ton of novel training methods for Tokyo including climbing in a Sauna. Frankly your level is such that you need to not even think about what a pro does and maybe be reflective and holistic about your own climbing.
I don't think you can convert what separates Ondra into actionable tips to improve your own climbing. If we could, other pro climbers would do it too. A better question might be: what separates pro climbers from amateurs? (and the disappointing answer would most likely be: good genetics + training very very hard from a really early age)
>(and the disappointing answer would most likely be: good genetics + training very very hard from a really early age) iirc, there have been a few v14+ climbers who started in their late 20s and early 30s.
Could u name some? Id love too see them
[https://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/48-year-old-akira-waku-of-japan-sends-v15-16-with-video/](https://www.rockandice.com/climbing-news/48-year-old-akira-waku-of-japan-sends-v15-16-with-video/) there's two others that I remember reading about but I don't remember enough details to be able to google them (I literally had to google "japanese hobbyist climber v14 started late" because I didn't remember this guy's name either lol)
Neil Gresham started climbing in his 20s I think, and certainly didn't hit his peak until his late 40s. He may not be bouldering V14 but he's damn strong for sure
Camille Coudert sent a.proposed V17 (maybe "just" hard V16) and I think he started in like early twenties.
I think its mostly his mental game. He doesn't seem to let the pressure of failure get to him.
He is obsessed with sport climbing, and other forms, but basically his near non-duality approach to his projects - he has dedication to climbing in general of course, but his true obsession is with the projects he has. This is the same as obsession one would have if they were on the verge of death for some reason, lets say dehydration; the want to crawl back and stay alive, seems to be how he approaches his projects. Also he is very, very confident in himself. He has tried to come off as humble a bit, but in general psychology: he has narcissistic (don't we all) qualities that add to his mentality of pontificating himself through proof of his climbing/stoke. \-- Now to clarify, his strength is on par with what I just said. It is incredible. He has the ability to use his - not the best in the world - maximal strength associated with the climb he would be doing at the time, and keeps it consistent. He doesn't really have low-high power moments IMO, he uses the same consistent energy output as say... a cyclist? It isn't about having ungodly strong fingers or Caldwell level technique for Adam. I BELIEVE that Adam operates at a different physical frequency than everyone else. His awareness is...prodigious.
Pain tolerance, perseverance, tactics, technique, experience, incredible mobility
In terms of what is actionable, I think Ondra's super power is obsession. Specifically sustained and intense obsession. All of the best climbers I know are as well. Really you see it in all of the most elite performers across a wide range of disciplines. From what I can tell, Ondra isn't obsessed with training or being stronger, he's obsessed with rock climbing. Specifically the movements and intricacies of specific routes and climbs. These details are what makes the difference, in my eyes. Lots of people are obsessed with the general idea of climbing. They get out, enjoy the day, have fun. Really, this is probably the healthiest way to approach the sport. But all of best climbers I've met will talk your ear off about how exactly they grabbed the hold, which foot chip they used, and why it fit their box better, etc etc.
I think he got that good not in spite but **BECAUSE** he has always been weaker than others climbing the same grade. If you're not that strong as the other guy, you need to find different solutions, optimize your technique in the smallest detail. Whether it's 6c, 7c or 8c. And then when you finally do get stronger you can make gigantic leaps. When I was younger I was much stronger, but my grades were lower than later in my climbing career. I then had a few shoulder injuries which took a very long time to heal, but still I was able to climb but was a lot weaker than my peers. Somehow my technique became way way better, so when my strength (mostly) came back after those longer periods I was making jumps in the grades. I had the great opportunity to ***climb with Ondra for a few days***. I joined a training camp for advanced climbers to get specific advice from a few PROs. Patxi was there for training advice, Ondra was there for on sight and redpoint advice. He saw all of us climb, and gave tailored advice... but for me the advice was quit short and simple: get stronger :/
Not sure why you got downvoted. I think there is a lot to say in regard to how people who start off weaker are forced to develop their technique more and much earlier than those who are naturally strong. Being weak forces you to learn the best body positions and to refine your beta otherwise you simply won't complete the climb, whereas if you're strong in order to develop a similar level of body awareness you have to be a lot more focused on using good technique since you can often get away with sub-optimal beta.
If you’re “relatively weak” with good technique the recipe to get stronger is simple: start focusing on strength. Plenty of training books and training material out there. If you’re strong, you often don’t recognize that your technique can improve. And when you do recognize, the recipe to get more technique while being strong is difficult. You’d have to switch off power to “feel” the difference between different methods. Much much harder.
It's all in the neck
Neck length, mostly.
"hard work and doing something more than anyone else in the world will get you 95% of the way to your goals" - Jeremy Jones Are you putting in the volume?
I think his greatest strength is the ability to always give a 100% you can climb so much harder when you’re extremely motivated and willing to push to the limit.
it’s pretty easy, start by winning every comp you enter from 7 years old.