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f1sh98

Well, that’s fucking horrifying


Ameobi1

Check out /r/ForgottenNews if you want to find more lesser known stories from around the world.


Diligent-Fuel2241

These murders brought to you by Americans who love cocaine, meth and fentanyl, because without the consumer demand, there wouldn't be such a viciously competitive market.


welfarecuban

People have an independent moral duty not to commit crimes, even if they are being paid for it. "I committed a brutal murder because people were paying me for drugs" is not even close to an acceptable explanation for violent conduct. The FUNDAMENTAL problem is parents failing to teach their children basic moral values.


TakingSorryUsername

Any kid can be taught not to steal gum. Try teaching a kid not to sell a piece of gum for $100k which can buy anything they can think of in an impoverished neighborhood. No amount of ethics can teach that.


Diligent-Fuel2241

Of course, but take away the economic incentives for barbarity, and you get a lot less violence.


MyAssIsNotYourToy

Remember folks its not the drug dealers fault its the people who got addicted to the drugs fault for giving "economic incentive" to the dealers.


GraceImago

It's the system's fault for relegating something extremely lucrative and in demand to an unregulated black market. The only way to reduce the violence is to legalize and regulate.


MyAssIsNotYourToy

Legalizing class A drugs will make things a lot worse. They are extremely addictive and most people will resort to criminality to support that addiction.


GraceImago

It is good to have some regulation in the form of public health. Allowing people to use these things and offering them the support to mitigate or stop is way better than forcing them underground where they can't access emergency services and healthcare without fear of legal consequence. A war on drugs is always gonna be worse than drugs, no matter what they are. Because it doesn't go anywhere.


MyAssIsNotYourToy

We already have this with drug rehab centres.


Docthrowaway2020

Why can't it be both? I have sympathy for people who get addicted to prescription drugs and then sink into illegal ones, and I think interventions for drug abuse on the systems level are badly needed, but at the end of the day less consumption would lead to narrower margins for the cartels.


MyAssIsNotYourToy

And how would you suggest we reduce consumption when the people who are selling the drugs are also the ones pushing it, how would abuse on the "systems level" solve this?


Docthrowaway2020

Exactly. You won't reduce the incidence of sociopathy, but make the drug trade profits narrow enough and you'll get surgeons and CEOs instead. (no dig at the average surgeon, but surgery does attract a disproportionate share of sociopaths. CEOs, on the other hand...)


GraceImago

If you're violent, being alive is gonna be an incentive for violence.


lapideous

“I committed a brutal murder to avoid hunger and poverty” is much less black and white People have innate survival instincts that trump morality


welfarecuban

Mexico is a middle-income nation by global standards. People committing cartel murders are often wealthier than the norm.


Gretchinlover

I don.t think Anyone or Anything, has ever experience hunger that "forces" you to skin a human skull completely. While the person is alive and attaching notes to the body with knives. That kinda shit was embedded long before drugs showed up. I'm always in awe of how ppl can vacation to Cancun Mexico, blissfully aware of some of the most inhumane shit to take place on this rock, is happening meters away.


TortureSteak

Cartels aren't skinning people alive and hanging their corpses from overpasses because their families are hungry...


lapideous

All cartel members are multimillionaires and there is no one at the bottom of the list, yup


Tyrannosaurus_Pecs

Yea but the point, why the grand displays of their murder? Why kill random citizens? Why abduct, torture, kill politicians? Three excessiveness of their brutality can't be labeled just for, they need food money.


lapideous

The people who enact the violence are typically not the people who call the shots


Tyrannosaurus_Pecs

Ok buddy, and Nazi soldiers at concentration were only following orders as well, so I guess by your logic that's not as bad because they didn't choose how to kill the Jews. Am I understanding that correctly?


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[удалено]


ArmChairAnalyst86

As much as I like jumping in on my fellow americans like yourself, it's quite clear that drug use spans every continent and every demographic. There are plenty drug producing entities all over the world, and generally it doesn't involve 100K of missing people in this manner and a shadow government stronger than the actual to such a degree. Also, it's not competitive, it's saturated, both by end users and suppliers. Most addicts don't go straight from sober to meth or fentynal. It's a gradual progression and it's influenced by many factors. Drug addiction being so prevalent here, more so than other places, it's more of a symptom and less of a cause. We should not be surprised. It's prevalent in music like, movies, youth culture, and society at large, of which we are all a part of. It spans every age group. Also, when we look around at our society, the problems go much further than drugs. For instance, if we got rid of all drug addiction in America, it would certainly help things, but it would be minor in comparison to random violence, political corruption, and brazen systemic greed. Most people, but not all, that end up hooked on drugs, start early, certainly before they can be considered a full fledged adult. Before they know they are in over their head, it's too late and they will have to fight like hell to get right again, they possess the self awareness and determination to do so. Love isn't the word I would use.


LostprophetFLCL

Hell yeah let's blame the addicts and the not the dealers out there peddling the shit!


Diligent-Fuel2241

Let's blame the people that continue to buy rather than getting help.


Stickyyman

Just take a second and think about what you just said, let’s blame the people that need help


Diligent-Fuel2241

No, let's blame the people that refuse the help available to them and continue subsidizing murder.


PoppinRaven

Yea let's tell every person to stop buying... avocados, almonds, any nestle product, any clothes from china, any technology from china, most bananas, gemstones, palm oil, beef more than once a month, big corporation chicken. I'm sure if we could just stop hopeless addicts trying to escape from doing one simple thing it would save the world.


Filthiest_Rat_NA

Any human being would get addicted to that, Americans arnt any different except they have the buying power


Full-Acanthaceae-509

"how can blame Americans and devoid Mexicans of any agency? AH YES" look, I am not even 100% against your comment but goddammit.


Diligent-Fuel2241

People respond to incentives. Impoverished people have a lot less agency. Sure, it's easy for the average well-fed and comfortable redditor to say "Oh, I would NEVER do that," but you put them in a place where neither they nor their family has any money, and your options are to join the cartels and provide for yourself and your family, or continue being a peasant farmer / potential victim of the cartels, and the choice gets a little harder. OF COURSE the Mexicans have agency, and of course they shouldn't be making these choices, but those choices wouldn't even exist if Americans didn't love drugs so much.


Full-Acanthaceae-509

I think you are correct to some extent but you framed the responsibility wrong. In any case, since I do think there is a % of responsibility and that druggies suck, I am not going to die on this hill.


borntobemild-

Are you blaming the addicts?


Diligent-Fuel2241

The ones that continue to use and subsidize this murder rather than taking advantage of the multiple treatment options they have available? Absolutely.


PoppinRaven

Have you ever had an avocado? You subsidized murder. Ate or drank a nestle product, subsidized slavery. Making up a guy and being mad at him doesn't solve anything. It's not like many hard drug users are in a place to be helped, they do drugs because they feel helpless.


ViewInternal3541

Or for fun!


Ashensten

Brought to you by the same incredibly dumb blame shifting logic as end user consumers can solve pollution. Governments create prohibition, which creates crime.


tcsac

>These murders brought to you by Americans the American government ~~who love cocaine, meth and fentanyl,~~ because without the drugs being illegal ~~consumer demand~~, there wouldn't be such a viciously competitive market. Fixed that for you. It turns out when alcohol was illegal, the only way to get your hands on it was from organized crime. Alcohol is now legal and unsurprisingly, legitimate businesses sell it. At this point legalization isn't even enough, the government would need to subsidize drugs to drive prices so low as to make it untenable for the cartel's. Don't blame the addicts, most of them are running from emotional trauma of some sort or another with little to no access to mental help facilities.


Hour-Lemon

If only you couldn't be disproven by reading the first sentences of the article >The number of people reported as disappeared in Mexico is at a record high of 100,000, figures suggest. Government data, which goes back to 1964, shows that almost all the disappearances have occurred since 2007, when then-President Felipe Calderón launched his "war on drugs".


EmbarrassedHelp

Causation does not equal correlation though.


Diligent-Fuel2241

How does that disprove anything? The war on drugs just makes the fight to supply Americans WITH drugs that much more competitive and violent.


Alexandis

Sounds like in the "war on drugs", Mexico lost. Just like the US did.


EmbarrassedHelp

The cartels are in more than just drugs. They're in legal industries as well, and no amount of legalization is going to stop them from trying to gain an upper hand through violence and intimidation in these industries.


SeriaMau2025

I mean, if it were legal, we could produce it locally and then the cartels would go out of business.


Diligent-Fuel2241

Yup. Or just medicalize it, which would make it substantially less cool.


DuckDrunkLove

What an utterly idiotic take. It's so obnoxious when people try to act all smart with these stupid *"we are the REAL problem"* comments.


Diligent-Fuel2241

This isn't an "all smart" take, this is the obvious result of a market that provides incentives for criminal behavior, and that market is driven by the American consumer. Not sure why you're so butthurt about it though.


Man_in_the_uk

Heisenberg.. Breaking Bad. Great show.


Diligent-Fuel2241

Probably couldn't even be made today, now that the cartels have "superlabs" in Mexico where they make meth from precursor ingredients purchased in bulk from China. Weird.


Man_in_the_uk

https://youtu.be/xyIzhRvtIJ0 I watched this during lockdown it was a good representation of the issue of people panic buying


10133960

And yet many Americans today see drugs as a "victimless crime". Tell that to the families of the dead. We need to drastically increase penalties for drug charges and preferably send the special forces into countries smuggling these drugs.


HoldingApeOfDiamonds

So fill up the jails even more? Penalize people who have an addiction? WTF


10133960

The dealers and traffickers are obviously the main targets.


TortureSteak

This is the dumbest take I think I've ever heard....


10133960

Check out countries like Singapore. Execute a couple people for drugs a year and the problem largely doesn't exist. Meanwhile in the US 100,000+ die a year and we act like there's nothing we can do. It's always funny how Americans think a problem can't be solved even though that problem doesn't exist in other parts of the world.


MyAssIsNotYourToy

Love or addiction?


mossiedinga

Were the murders during alcohol prohibition due to people who drank alcohol? If so, then why did the murders stop when prohibition stopped even though people kept drinking? The blood is on the hands of prohibitionists, not those who exercise their right to choose what they do with their own minds and bodies.


trojangodwulf

or just you know. legalize all drugs


Man_in_the_uk

I will be giving the country a wide birth then..


SeriaMau2025

You need wide hips for a wide birth, but not for a wide *berth*.


Man_in_the_uk

Thanks I knew there was something wrong with the spelling.


Ameobi1

There are plenty of great tourist spots in Mexico and great food, but yes obviously a country that has a lot of issues in places.


TheClayroo

A few years back I had to go to Chihuahua for work so I posted on their sub asking what there was to do and was it safe etc. Someone basically said "Since you're Canadian I'll assume you're white so no you can't go out." My work even offered to get me security for the ride from the hotel to site and airport.


Man_in_the_uk

Interesting, I wasn't aware Mexico had any reputation for racism against White people??


TheClayroo

It's not about racism, it's about being kidnapped and held for ransom.


Man_in_the_uk

Ahhh


hungariannastyboy

It varies a lot by location, but based on [this map](https://elcri.men/en/violence-map/), Chihuahua outside of Juárez isn't particularly bad.


ForgotMyOldLoginInfo

Already posted: https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/urp9hh/the_number_of_people_reported_as_disappeared_in/


[deleted]

Everyone apparently knows the cartels run mexico. makes me so angry


Man_in_the_uk

I've only ever heard of bad things about this country. It creates tasty foods but just listen to what Trump's got to say about it.


bigboi2115

Mexico is an awesome place. It's just that drugs are very profitable and very illegal. So crime is committed in order to keep making money and obtain power selling these drugs. Immigration isn't the problem. Having drugs be illegal is the problem. Yes, there are very harmful drugs out there. But if people wanna screw around with them, they need to be responsible. Addiction is a terrible thing, but punishing somone and making them a criminal because they do drugs is also an issue. TL;DR Decriminalize all drugs, effectively cripple the black market, provide addiction support in a world where drugs are less taboo, violent crime plummets.


_justtheonce_

Why would a man in the UK listen to anything that Trump says?!


Hypertension123456

Trump said they would pay him to build a wall. How did that work out?


SeriaMau2025

Ouch.